Are we allowed to find any funny in the “men are coming to take over women’s” sports debate? I love how one of the only ways to get men to care about women’s sports on a national level is tell them a trans woman is playing it 😂😂
Heh heh yes. It's a reference to Bronze Age Pervert, author of best selling Bronze Age Mindset that valorizes the tan oiled-up muscley bodies both of antiquity and present day.
Who knows - Strauss crapped on Kapler as a phony but he said Kershaw’s beliefs are pure. Typical Strauss double standard. Here’s what I know about Kapler he was part of a group of Giants who visited kids with cancer on at a SF hospital and was delightful. A co worker of my wife whose kid has leukemia had a great day. Phony? Ok sure.
I love Katie Herzog, she reminds me of my mom, except she is more “girly-girl” 😜. Activists still have a role to play in what used to be called the gay rights movement, but in the era of social media many have morphed into a unhealthy combination of politician and priest.
There are more than a few moments of cognitive dissonance in this conversation, though that's unsurprising given the context.
Pushing male inclusion in female sports is obviously divisive and may be a "waterloo" in terms of winning elections, but I don't think "winning elections" is anyone's real metric of success. It's hard to argue that Trump was anything but a huge boon to these activist groups and left/liberal power and funding generally (right-wing "dissidents" as well tbh). If Trump or junior associate DeSantis can mount a substantial apparent challenge to Biden, that's a victory for all these left activist groups and NGOs, regardless of what happens in any elections. ESG scores and share valuation matter more than earned rev and NGO funding matters more than votes.
Male inclusion in women's sports makes explicit the logical conclusion of both left-wing and right-wing ideology, conclusions which are uncomfortable to our contemporary sensibilities: On one hand that any gendered differences are socially constructed and malleable to human engineering and that such engineering is worthwhile for the sake of equity or ending sexism (or white supremacy or homophobia or whatever your critical theory identity marker of choice is). On the other hand that sex (and racial?) differences are real and extremely important and that females playing competitive sports is undignified and generally unfitting of the gentler sex. Both claims are logically coherent. The "middle" contemporary perspective that some sex differences are real but in general women can and should hold the same social roles as men and that disparities in racial outcomes are mostly the result of educational and financial disparities is a hopeful but perhaps not as coherent one.
Katie fears that Gay Marriage is losing mainstream support.
But shortly after she claims that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence's transgressiveness is what's important about them and that mainstreaming them undoes that transgressiveness.
Presumably what's happening to the latter could also be applied to the former.
Great episode. Katie always makes me smile. Interesting to hear Ethan use the word "wishcast" in the context of discussion of trans issues in sports -- "wishcast" is a neologism purportedly coined (and I believe this is accurate!) by pioneering trans sportswriter Christina Kahrl, which has now seeped into mainstream conversations from the baseball discourse. Not that there's anything weird or wrong with Ethan using the word (on the contrary!), it's just interesting.
I thought Ethan sounded pretty ridiculous trying to explain that Twitter is better actually because verification has been destroyed, Blue Subscribers get preference in replies (yay freedom of speech!), and the "For You" page shows a bunch of content you don't subscribe to or care about. The bots are more prominent than they've ever been and it doesn't seem like there's a plan to combat them. You can't click on a sports tweet without seeing a scam reply promising "100% FIXED MATCHES ON MLB/NBA/EPL!". So many quality-of-life improvements over the last 10 years have been undone.
I felt like Ethan was just following his contrarian instincts without putting much thought into his response. Purely from a UX perspective, Twitter is a substantially worse app than it was a year ago.
Agree 100%. Also, it's clear that twitter just takes longer to load than it used to on my computer (I don't like having it on my phone cause I get addicted).
100% agree with "as for Matt's reflexive signal to his buddies on Bari". There is such a reluctance among those heavily invested/interested in legacy media to acknowledge the changes that are happening. First they write about how a phenomenon isn't real. Then they acknowledge it's real but write about how it's exaggerated and blown way out of proportion. Then they write about how actually it's this OTHER issue that's the real problem (i.e. change the framing to avoid discussing the phenomenon). Then they are shocked to learn that RFK Jr is polling around 18% and go back into their ideological bubble to write articles about their favorite "problematic" topic: White supremacy, misinformation, twitter, science skeptics, trans issues, more twitter, etc.
Goldberg is obviously less powerful than Berenson but he is embedded in amassed institutional and cultural power in a way that Berenson and Weiss and Rogan etc., are not, or at least have not yet demonstrated.
I'll be curious if these mainstream but non-institutionalized figures will be able to wield productive (and coercive?) cultural power in any way resembling something like Biden's winning an election or EEAAO's Oscar or even Ja Morant's ridiculous 35-game suspension all of which feel like total flexes of the institutional power backing Goldberg.
We shall see, perhaps some important lessons there indeed.
After Bernie's campaign I tend to agree with Yarvin's framing that money isn't power, public sentiment isn't power, shifting dynamics aren't power, power is power.
"If you are willing to lie to me about something so intuitive and obvious HOW CAN I TRUST YOU ABOUT ANYTHING?"
This is how I feel about everything MAGA. I was an independent who is now solely on the left because I have ZERO faith or belief in anything the GOP does as long as they're in bed with Trump and his cult-like base of racists and religious zealots.
The Biden admin tacitly supporting trans women playing women's sports would rank as the 6,987,356th craziest/most offensive thing Trump has done in his political career.
As a parent whose teenage son has many trans friends (a few of which have come to our house), I will always lean to the side of trans rights. And, no, I don't think people who were born as men should necessarily be playing women's sports.
However, I also recognize that the GOP is using this issue as a cudgel to undermine much of the progress the LGBTQ movement has made in the culture during the last couple of decades and I don't begrudge activists or allies (like myself) for digging their heels in on this issue. Unfortunately, our political climate (both sides) isn't ready for a fair minded, good faith, and nuanced discussion on things like this.
But I do value this space for people like us to have those conversations <3
That's a fair criticism of my stance but, in this current climate, I just feel the trans community is in real danger and needs more support and attention than little Suzy not making the swim team. Of course, I'd love for both issues to be supported and rightly dealt with but I don't see a path forward at this point. Plus, I LOVED sports as a kid but wasn't good enough to make any of the teams in high school (except for track) and I survived. I just played rec leagues and YMCA. No one is losing scholarships or paychecks over this.
In short, my belief is that anti-trans rhetoric is producing exponentially more victims than girls losing a race to a "dude" at their swim meet.
No. I knew of trans people but I didn't know any personally. I think this is similar to not knowing any left handed people 100 years ago or gay people 30 years ago.
I find it hard to say the GOP hasn't paid a price for Trump. A normal incumbent keeps the White House in 2020 and Republicans should have swept the elections in 2022, but could only manage a minor victory in the most favorable economic circumstances imaginable. Trump was a big part of that (abortion, obviously, the other major part)
Are we allowed to find any funny in the “men are coming to take over women’s” sports debate? I love how one of the only ways to get men to care about women’s sports on a national level is tell them a trans woman is playing it 😂😂
Anyone know, what does "Bap aesthetic" mean in Ethan's reference to SF Giants Skipper Gabe Kapler?
It means Ethan is way too online.
Heh heh yes. It's a reference to Bronze Age Pervert, author of best selling Bronze Age Mindset that valorizes the tan oiled-up muscley bodies both of antiquity and present day.
Who knows - Strauss crapped on Kapler as a phony but he said Kershaw’s beliefs are pure. Typical Strauss double standard. Here’s what I know about Kapler he was part of a group of Giants who visited kids with cancer on at a SF hospital and was delightful. A co worker of my wife whose kid has leukemia had a great day. Phony? Ok sure.
I love Katie Herzog, she reminds me of my mom, except she is more “girly-girl” 😜. Activists still have a role to play in what used to be called the gay rights movement, but in the era of social media many have morphed into a unhealthy combination of politician and priest.
I think what Ethan was trying to describe RE: Gabe Kapler is South Park’s PC Principal. A dude bro who wants to project righteousness for points
https://youtu.be/wdxQnOgtzBI
There are more than a few moments of cognitive dissonance in this conversation, though that's unsurprising given the context.
Pushing male inclusion in female sports is obviously divisive and may be a "waterloo" in terms of winning elections, but I don't think "winning elections" is anyone's real metric of success. It's hard to argue that Trump was anything but a huge boon to these activist groups and left/liberal power and funding generally (right-wing "dissidents" as well tbh). If Trump or junior associate DeSantis can mount a substantial apparent challenge to Biden, that's a victory for all these left activist groups and NGOs, regardless of what happens in any elections. ESG scores and share valuation matter more than earned rev and NGO funding matters more than votes.
Male inclusion in women's sports makes explicit the logical conclusion of both left-wing and right-wing ideology, conclusions which are uncomfortable to our contemporary sensibilities: On one hand that any gendered differences are socially constructed and malleable to human engineering and that such engineering is worthwhile for the sake of equity or ending sexism (or white supremacy or homophobia or whatever your critical theory identity marker of choice is). On the other hand that sex (and racial?) differences are real and extremely important and that females playing competitive sports is undignified and generally unfitting of the gentler sex. Both claims are logically coherent. The "middle" contemporary perspective that some sex differences are real but in general women can and should hold the same social roles as men and that disparities in racial outcomes are mostly the result of educational and financial disparities is a hopeful but perhaps not as coherent one.
Katie fears that Gay Marriage is losing mainstream support.
But shortly after she claims that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence's transgressiveness is what's important about them and that mainstreaming them undoes that transgressiveness.
Presumably what's happening to the latter could also be applied to the former.
Great episode. Katie always makes me smile. Interesting to hear Ethan use the word "wishcast" in the context of discussion of trans issues in sports -- "wishcast" is a neologism purportedly coined (and I believe this is accurate!) by pioneering trans sportswriter Christina Kahrl, which has now seeped into mainstream conversations from the baseball discourse. Not that there's anything weird or wrong with Ethan using the word (on the contrary!), it's just interesting.
Always love the episodes with Katie.
I thought Ethan sounded pretty ridiculous trying to explain that Twitter is better actually because verification has been destroyed, Blue Subscribers get preference in replies (yay freedom of speech!), and the "For You" page shows a bunch of content you don't subscribe to or care about. The bots are more prominent than they've ever been and it doesn't seem like there's a plan to combat them. You can't click on a sports tweet without seeing a scam reply promising "100% FIXED MATCHES ON MLB/NBA/EPL!". So many quality-of-life improvements over the last 10 years have been undone.
I felt like Ethan was just following his contrarian instincts without putting much thought into his response. Purely from a UX perspective, Twitter is a substantially worse app than it was a year ago.
Agree 100%. Also, it's clear that twitter just takes longer to load than it used to on my computer (I don't like having it on my phone cause I get addicted).
100% agree with "as for Matt's reflexive signal to his buddies on Bari". There is such a reluctance among those heavily invested/interested in legacy media to acknowledge the changes that are happening. First they write about how a phenomenon isn't real. Then they acknowledge it's real but write about how it's exaggerated and blown way out of proportion. Then they write about how actually it's this OTHER issue that's the real problem (i.e. change the framing to avoid discussing the phenomenon). Then they are shocked to learn that RFK Jr is polling around 18% and go back into their ideological bubble to write articles about their favorite "problematic" topic: White supremacy, misinformation, twitter, science skeptics, trans issues, more twitter, etc.
Goldberg is obviously less powerful than Berenson but he is embedded in amassed institutional and cultural power in a way that Berenson and Weiss and Rogan etc., are not, or at least have not yet demonstrated.
I'll be curious if these mainstream but non-institutionalized figures will be able to wield productive (and coercive?) cultural power in any way resembling something like Biden's winning an election or EEAAO's Oscar or even Ja Morant's ridiculous 35-game suspension all of which feel like total flexes of the institutional power backing Goldberg.
*25 game suspension for Ja.
We shall see, perhaps some important lessons there indeed.
After Bernie's campaign I tend to agree with Yarvin's framing that money isn't power, public sentiment isn't power, shifting dynamics aren't power, power is power.
"If you are willing to lie to me about something so intuitive and obvious HOW CAN I TRUST YOU ABOUT ANYTHING?"
This is how I feel about everything MAGA. I was an independent who is now solely on the left because I have ZERO faith or belief in anything the GOP does as long as they're in bed with Trump and his cult-like base of racists and religious zealots.
The Biden admin tacitly supporting trans women playing women's sports would rank as the 6,987,356th craziest/most offensive thing Trump has done in his political career.
As a parent whose teenage son has many trans friends (a few of which have come to our house), I will always lean to the side of trans rights. And, no, I don't think people who were born as men should necessarily be playing women's sports.
However, I also recognize that the GOP is using this issue as a cudgel to undermine much of the progress the LGBTQ movement has made in the culture during the last couple of decades and I don't begrudge activists or allies (like myself) for digging their heels in on this issue. Unfortunately, our political climate (both sides) isn't ready for a fair minded, good faith, and nuanced discussion on things like this.
But I do value this space for people like us to have those conversations <3
That's a fair criticism of my stance but, in this current climate, I just feel the trans community is in real danger and needs more support and attention than little Suzy not making the swim team. Of course, I'd love for both issues to be supported and rightly dealt with but I don't see a path forward at this point. Plus, I LOVED sports as a kid but wasn't good enough to make any of the teams in high school (except for track) and I survived. I just played rec leagues and YMCA. No one is losing scholarships or paychecks over this.
In short, my belief is that anti-trans rhetoric is producing exponentially more victims than girls losing a race to a "dude" at their swim meet.
Like what danger?
"Ya, I mean, I also have trans friends. It's pretty hard not to in 2023"
Something like 1.6% of the US population is transgender, so this statement is bizarre.
"Ya, I mean, I also have trans friends. It's pretty hard not to in 2023."
Man, do I feel like an old loner. Did you guys know any trans people prior to 2016?
No. I knew of trans people but I didn't know any personally. I think this is similar to not knowing any left handed people 100 years ago or gay people 30 years ago.
I find it hard to say the GOP hasn't paid a price for Trump. A normal incumbent keeps the White House in 2020 and Republicans should have swept the elections in 2022, but could only manage a minor victory in the most favorable economic circumstances imaginable. Trump was a big part of that (abortion, obviously, the other major part)
I disagree with that and would point to the number of votes Biden received in 2020 and the results in 2022 as proof.