The reason I get annoyed is because there is no world that Nick would recognize the trove of videos coming in demonstrating the evidence of inflated LeBron assists on plays that clearly should be deemed unassisted buckets for his teammates.
If he were even handed in how he approached each then that would be fine. Do it on his show or podcast and I’m good— if he would go through a video showing those times where LeBron was credited with unearned stats and would affirm that it also has happened with his guy and is wrong then it would not illicit the same level of eye-rolls and bring the same level of accusations of dishonesty against him.
This is now tedious. Lebron’s clock has run. Jordan’s legacy is set as the mythical Bringer of Death. Lebron’s legacy is set as a spectacularly talented little bitch. Sneakily colluding with internet dorks to take feeble potshots at Jordan is a little bitch move. Having the physical manifestation of the concept of a little bitch (Nick Wright) make hysterical arguments in your favor while being extra catty to Emperor Jordan just confirms you as the King of Little Bitches.
Why isn't Kobe, who modeled himself on and compared himself to MJ much more than LeBron has while falling way shorter, not considered a Little Bitch under the same criteria?
This isn't a "whataboutism" or whatever, this is the entire crux of the argument: if the 2nd-best player of all time (or 3rd if you're a Kareem guy) is such a little bitch for falling short of Michael Jordan, then everyone is, and what's even the point of watching or pretending you enjoy basketball?
No, the crux of my argument is that Lebron is a little bitch because he does little bitch things. Not because he is in the conversation for the second best player of all. Kobe—who you don’t see me praising or favorably comparing to either Lebron or Jordan—was a fake bitch with strong little bitch tendencies for much of his career. Outside his core fandom, he only became tolerable to some and beloved by others after he embraced being the entitled, greedy snake who gave no fucks about anybody else that he was, during the last third of his career.
I remember before the conversation shifted to Lebron some Kobe partisans tried to have a Kobe v. Jordan conversation. It was laughable. Remember Raja Bell? Raja Bell punked Kobe. Jordan woulda destroyed Raja Bell’s life like he did Drexler’s in the evening, and gambled away Raja Bell’s whole yearly salary at cards later that night.
Two points about Nick Wright and this whole debate:
1) The way we have to ignore Jordan's college exploits, including 3 great seasons and a national championship, in the GOAT debate, because Lebron didn't play college. It's kind of insane. This is in the era when everyone played college, often 3-4 years! It was more popular than the NBA!! Are we saying if Lebron played 3 years at Duke and won a title, we'd be ignoring it? Of course not. We should be marveling at 18-21 Jordan just like we do at 18-21 Lebron.
2) Nick Wright and his idiotic hills-to-die-on. It's not just this stupid non-debate debate with Jordan and Lebron. He just loses all credibility as a basketball "expert" when he time and time again picks with his heart not his brain. He hates the current Celtics, so he disparages everything they do and picks against them again and again, including the preposterous Dallas 4-1 championship win pick last month. Like what are we doing here? He hates the Nuggets, so last year he picks against them every series, including in the Finals against the 8 seeded Heat. And yes, he *of course* picked the Lakers and Lebron both last year (Nuggets won 4-0) and this year (Nuggets won 4-1), and yet is expected to be taken seriously. And he's still looking for ways to denigrate Jokic at every opportunity, because yes been wrong about him so much and so badly, that's really all that's left for him to do.
It would be one thing if his role is as a clown, like Sports Jimminy Glick, but it's not, he's supposed to be a serious respected basketball expert. Can you really be an expert if you keep being wrong on everything, all the time?
That's an excellent point. Jordan also won an Olympic gold medal while in college (and won it on a team without any NBA players at all due to the amateur rules in place at the time) but again we are just supposed to ignore that when it comes to the GOAT argument
I didn't even think about that, but he was the star of the 1984 Olympic team too. It really is amazing how everything he did 18-21 is just brushed aside.
It's just frustrating to me that so many basketball fans seem so excited about tearing down, mocking, or belittling MJ - a guy who did everything we should want players to do. He played hard every night. Played 82. Didn't ask for a trade every year. Didn't flail around for bs fouls. Didn't 'load manage.' Raised his game in the biggest moments. Played both sides of the floor. Won.
He remains the gold standard, and I'm glad Ethan keeps hammering that home.
Kobe: had the reputation, the myth, "clutch", plenty of highlight moments, and the most rabid fan base behind him. Dig into the stats and you can take him down a few notches. Wasn't as clutch as you remember. Prima donna in a way that people respect.
LeBron: became better than expectations despite having the highest expectations ever placed on an athlete prior to be drafted. Dominated through strength for years and was often unfairly maligned for lack of style points. Was the best player in the league for many years while not given that credit. Lots of his unclutch moments captured and dissected. Post 2013 he throttled his performance depending on the situation (aka didn't bring it every night) Stats almost always going to help his case. Prima donna in a way people hate.
MJ: everyone was afraid of him, mythical, reputation of being clutch and was actually clutch, benefited from a perfect storybook arc to his career, stats are insane, advanced analytics made him look better than counting stats. Prima donna in a way people love.
People that saw MJ play will never yield on his GOAT status the way people that saw Jim Brown play will never yield. If you were there, you trusted the dominance that you saw repeatedly.
The more interesting discussion is in baseball. I've never seen anything like Barry Bonds in his late 30s. He was already an all-timer and then he started playing a different sport. It was absurd to witness someone on a completely different level. I've not spent time digging into advanced stats or caring enough to compare him to other greats. Just pointing out the impact the eye test can have.
What is the biggest “black swan” lifetime stat in sports? I would argue it is Barry Bonds’ intentional BB totals of 688 . Pujols is in second with 316. Averaging more than 1/3 of those came from 2002-4. He rarely did a swing and miss those years. I do believe steroids helped his batting eye. But it didn’t seem to help anyone else’s that much.
After Willie passed last week, I went down a rabbit hole and ended up on Bonds' batting line in that World Series against Anaheim. I had to read it like seven times and just shake my head.
.471/.700/1.294, 8 hits (6XB, 4 HR) in 17 ABs, 13 BB (7 IBB) to 3 Ks
Buck Showalter on his decision to intentionally walk Bonds with the bases loaded in the 9th. Showalter: It had nothing to do with Brent Mayne. I can’t explain to people what level Barry was compared to everybody else. It felt like every time up, he was gonna walk or hit a home run. If I wanted to end the game for sure, I would’ve let Barry hit.
People who say "apart" when they mean "a part" is a pet peeve.
I honestly don't know how anyone who watched Jordan and LeBron could think LeBron is greater. If you never watched Jordan or you get paid to argue on tv, fine, whatever. But if you actually watched both players it's not a real debate.
Thing I remember about Jordan watching his games was - the timing. The bigger the moment , the more important a stop or a steal was - he made it. It was the way he turned a close game in his favor in the last few minutes. He always rose to the moment and delivered .
I just saw that MJ averaged 40.4 MPG and 35PPG (!!) in the season and considering the arguments you've put forth was a deserved DPOY recipient. The bigger issue is that in modern times (lol, since 2000, at least that's when I have been following) DPOY has been awarded to the best defensive player and not the player who is defensively good as well as good offensively! The biggest victim of this were KG and Tim Duncan. They shouldered a huge offensive burden for their teams while also anchoring good defenses (also having better win shares) and all the while losing to Ben Wallace because he was good at blocking shots and was more or less ignored on offense (apart from famously having the first play of the game run for him). It unnecessarily penalizes good offensive players who were also good on defense. Maybe having that as a view would have helped Tom gain more traction.
I think the last good offensive player to win the DPOY was Giannis who averaged around 29 PTS/game and this year too while Rudy was good, he is a zero on the offense while Anthony Davis (who I am no fan of, being a Celtics fan) anchored the Lakers defense and also had an outsized impact on the offense as well.
We all witnessed the emergence of that myth in real time and we all collectively agreed that it was true. Yeah Magic and Bird had been dominant with their rings but by the time Jordan won DPOY in 1988 no one really tried to argue he wasn’t the league’s superstar at that point.
So far there has been a Tom, a Thom and a Thomas all commenting on Ehtan's post about not just Nick Wright, but Tom Haberstroh. Did Tom put Thom up to this, or was it Thomas?
I agree with narrow thrust of your article: the definitely inflated stats for Jordon don't necessarily mean he didn't deserve DPOY. And I don't know the year but I trust you when it sounds like he did given the competition.
But it's the last part, "given the competition," that is my takeaway for the broader Jordan versus LeBron debate. There was no compelling alternative that year which was lucky. In the same way Jordan was indeed lucky to play in a diluted from expansion time. You can only beat who is in front of you but you need to be honest about who's in front of you in awards and championships.
Finally, people use the DPOY to argue Jordan is an overall better defender than LeBron at peak and/or career. You didn't, but that's part of the pushback from those like Wright on the award. You didn't address that question but the reference to "perimeter defender" gives away some of the game here. Nobody grades offense by position in overall awards...
It is true that Jordan's DPOY came as Michael Cooper was fading and Dennis Rodman was ascending. But that still left a formidable field; they just couldn't match where Jordan was.
When Michael Jordan did not win the MVP, the winners were Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, or Karl Malone (because people were tired of giving Jordan the award). LeBron has lost it to significantly lesser players.
1) The players you list in the clip, ignoring Stockton, must not have had a great year almost definitionally in my book for 6'6" 210lb perimeter player to be considered the best defensive player by a comfortable margin while also playing (more realistically) the best offense. That's kind of my point.
2) I didn't tip my hand to LeBron versus Jordan on my ultimate opinion, but my field in front of you applies more to team competition in that era than individual awards - though I think it's indisputable overall outside of anything Jordan specific that the more recent, internationalized NBA is richer in individual talent.
P.S. I also think something you're in awe of that cements the wonder of Jordan should instead make you suspicious: actually being the most impactful offensive and defensive player simultaneously in the same season. Perhaps a person has the potential ceiling to do this theoretically but actually achieving it for a full season, as you seem to contend Jordan did, should require an extraordinary amount of evidence and reflection. It seems to require a God, a clever narrative, or very weak competition.
The best philosophy/essays say what you were thinking and wanted to say but could not put into words; they give one the feeling of revelation - "Yes, that's exactly the issue I saw/point I wanted to make but could not formulate; you've nailed it."
Such is my feeling reading this piece. Bless you mate for articulating what so many of us wish we could say (and know to be true) but could not put into words. Thank you
>Remember, this was back in the day, when Scottie Pippen is a rookie who started zero games.
He did play 21 minutes a game of very good defense...
>But here’s the issue: The Bulls were 3rd in defensive rating, absent a great defensive center, and the Lakers were 9th.
There are 8-9 dudes playing a night, this isn't even an argument, just pure stupidity. It has literally nothing to do with who "deserved DPOY" if that is what we are talking about.
>It’s just difficult to assert that 31 year-old Michael Cooper had more of an impact on his team’s defense that season than 24 year-old Michael Jordan.
I don't really think you are in any position to say this without watching like 40 games of each team.
To be clear overall I don't really have a position, I was 7 an in no position to judge. Just pointing out where your arguments were quite weak.
Pippen was regarded as the best defensive player on the championship Bulls team. Without this context, one might have assumed that it was Pippen, not Jordan, who was leading the team to their improved defense. Pippen contriuted, but was not the driving force.
Not sure what you mean by your second point. Great defensive teams, particularly in the 80s were generally anchored by great defensive centers. This was the era of Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, and Patrick Ewing. I'm thinking Dan Corzine was not the primary factor in the Bulls' defensive performance.
Your third point is where I want to scream "WE WERE THERE!!!" I watched Michael Cooper, and then Michael Jordan. I saw how Cooper was aging I knew he was never more than an excellent sixth man, and had declined to less than that by 1988. He did not have the impact Jordan did.
Jordan won the award by a vote of his contemporaries who did watch each of them play 40 games. If you are arguing he didn't deserver the award, then someone else did. If you claim that someone is Michael Cooper, you need to explain how he had a greater impact as a 31 year old playing a part-time schedule that somehow escaped the voters who had given him the award the previous year.
And 21 minutes a game of elite defense is for sure enough to make a huge difference. Your assertion that isn’t enough isn’t really based on anything, it all depends on whose minutes he was replacing, something Ethan didn’t talk about at all.
I am not arguing anything other than Ethan made some bad points.
I have literally zero opinion of who deserves DPOY that year. I wasn’t there.
The reason I get annoyed is because there is no world that Nick would recognize the trove of videos coming in demonstrating the evidence of inflated LeBron assists on plays that clearly should be deemed unassisted buckets for his teammates.
If he were even handed in how he approached each then that would be fine. Do it on his show or podcast and I’m good— if he would go through a video showing those times where LeBron was credited with unearned stats and would affirm that it also has happened with his guy and is wrong then it would not illicit the same level of eye-rolls and bring the same level of accusations of dishonesty against him.
This is now tedious. Lebron’s clock has run. Jordan’s legacy is set as the mythical Bringer of Death. Lebron’s legacy is set as a spectacularly talented little bitch. Sneakily colluding with internet dorks to take feeble potshots at Jordan is a little bitch move. Having the physical manifestation of the concept of a little bitch (Nick Wright) make hysterical arguments in your favor while being extra catty to Emperor Jordan just confirms you as the King of Little Bitches.
Why isn't Kobe, who modeled himself on and compared himself to MJ much more than LeBron has while falling way shorter, not considered a Little Bitch under the same criteria?
This isn't a "whataboutism" or whatever, this is the entire crux of the argument: if the 2nd-best player of all time (or 3rd if you're a Kareem guy) is such a little bitch for falling short of Michael Jordan, then everyone is, and what's even the point of watching or pretending you enjoy basketball?
No, the crux of my argument is that Lebron is a little bitch because he does little bitch things. Not because he is in the conversation for the second best player of all. Kobe—who you don’t see me praising or favorably comparing to either Lebron or Jordan—was a fake bitch with strong little bitch tendencies for much of his career. Outside his core fandom, he only became tolerable to some and beloved by others after he embraced being the entitled, greedy snake who gave no fucks about anybody else that he was, during the last third of his career.
I remember before the conversation shifted to Lebron some Kobe partisans tried to have a Kobe v. Jordan conversation. It was laughable. Remember Raja Bell? Raja Bell punked Kobe. Jordan woulda destroyed Raja Bell’s life like he did Drexler’s in the evening, and gambled away Raja Bell’s whole yearly salary at cards later that night.
Two points about Nick Wright and this whole debate:
1) The way we have to ignore Jordan's college exploits, including 3 great seasons and a national championship, in the GOAT debate, because Lebron didn't play college. It's kind of insane. This is in the era when everyone played college, often 3-4 years! It was more popular than the NBA!! Are we saying if Lebron played 3 years at Duke and won a title, we'd be ignoring it? Of course not. We should be marveling at 18-21 Jordan just like we do at 18-21 Lebron.
2) Nick Wright and his idiotic hills-to-die-on. It's not just this stupid non-debate debate with Jordan and Lebron. He just loses all credibility as a basketball "expert" when he time and time again picks with his heart not his brain. He hates the current Celtics, so he disparages everything they do and picks against them again and again, including the preposterous Dallas 4-1 championship win pick last month. Like what are we doing here? He hates the Nuggets, so last year he picks against them every series, including in the Finals against the 8 seeded Heat. And yes, he *of course* picked the Lakers and Lebron both last year (Nuggets won 4-0) and this year (Nuggets won 4-1), and yet is expected to be taken seriously. And he's still looking for ways to denigrate Jokic at every opportunity, because yes been wrong about him so much and so badly, that's really all that's left for him to do.
It would be one thing if his role is as a clown, like Sports Jimminy Glick, but it's not, he's supposed to be a serious respected basketball expert. Can you really be an expert if you keep being wrong on everything, all the time?
That's an excellent point. Jordan also won an Olympic gold medal while in college (and won it on a team without any NBA players at all due to the amateur rules in place at the time) but again we are just supposed to ignore that when it comes to the GOAT argument
I didn't even think about that, but he was the star of the 1984 Olympic team too. It really is amazing how everything he did 18-21 is just brushed aside.
It's just frustrating to me that so many basketball fans seem so excited about tearing down, mocking, or belittling MJ - a guy who did everything we should want players to do. He played hard every night. Played 82. Didn't ask for a trade every year. Didn't flail around for bs fouls. Didn't 'load manage.' Raised his game in the biggest moments. Played both sides of the floor. Won.
He remains the gold standard, and I'm glad Ethan keeps hammering that home.
Kobe: had the reputation, the myth, "clutch", plenty of highlight moments, and the most rabid fan base behind him. Dig into the stats and you can take him down a few notches. Wasn't as clutch as you remember. Prima donna in a way that people respect.
LeBron: became better than expectations despite having the highest expectations ever placed on an athlete prior to be drafted. Dominated through strength for years and was often unfairly maligned for lack of style points. Was the best player in the league for many years while not given that credit. Lots of his unclutch moments captured and dissected. Post 2013 he throttled his performance depending on the situation (aka didn't bring it every night) Stats almost always going to help his case. Prima donna in a way people hate.
MJ: everyone was afraid of him, mythical, reputation of being clutch and was actually clutch, benefited from a perfect storybook arc to his career, stats are insane, advanced analytics made him look better than counting stats. Prima donna in a way people love.
People that saw MJ play will never yield on his GOAT status the way people that saw Jim Brown play will never yield. If you were there, you trusted the dominance that you saw repeatedly.
The more interesting discussion is in baseball. I've never seen anything like Barry Bonds in his late 30s. He was already an all-timer and then he started playing a different sport. It was absurd to witness someone on a completely different level. I've not spent time digging into advanced stats or caring enough to compare him to other greats. Just pointing out the impact the eye test can have.
What is the biggest “black swan” lifetime stat in sports? I would argue it is Barry Bonds’ intentional BB totals of 688 . Pujols is in second with 316. Averaging more than 1/3 of those came from 2002-4. He rarely did a swing and miss those years. I do believe steroids helped his batting eye. But it didn’t seem to help anyone else’s that much.
After Willie passed last week, I went down a rabbit hole and ended up on Bonds' batting line in that World Series against Anaheim. I had to read it like seven times and just shake my head.
.471/.700/1.294, 8 hits (6XB, 4 HR) in 17 ABs, 13 BB (7 IBB) to 3 Ks
Buck Showalter on his decision to intentionally walk Bonds with the bases loaded in the 9th. Showalter: It had nothing to do with Brent Mayne. I can’t explain to people what level Barry was compared to everybody else. It felt like every time up, he was gonna walk or hit a home run. If I wanted to end the game for sure, I would’ve let Barry hit.
People who say "apart" when they mean "a part" is a pet peeve.
I honestly don't know how anyone who watched Jordan and LeBron could think LeBron is greater. If you never watched Jordan or you get paid to argue on tv, fine, whatever. But if you actually watched both players it's not a real debate.
Thing I remember about Jordan watching his games was - the timing. The bigger the moment , the more important a stop or a steal was - he made it. It was the way he turned a close game in his favor in the last few minutes. He always rose to the moment and delivered .
Nick Wright should be cast out of polite society
I just saw that MJ averaged 40.4 MPG and 35PPG (!!) in the season and considering the arguments you've put forth was a deserved DPOY recipient. The bigger issue is that in modern times (lol, since 2000, at least that's when I have been following) DPOY has been awarded to the best defensive player and not the player who is defensively good as well as good offensively! The biggest victim of this were KG and Tim Duncan. They shouldered a huge offensive burden for their teams while also anchoring good defenses (also having better win shares) and all the while losing to Ben Wallace because he was good at blocking shots and was more or less ignored on offense (apart from famously having the first play of the game run for him). It unnecessarily penalizes good offensive players who were also good on defense. Maybe having that as a view would have helped Tom gain more traction.
I think the last good offensive player to win the DPOY was Giannis who averaged around 29 PTS/game and this year too while Rudy was good, he is a zero on the offense while Anthony Davis (who I am no fan of, being a Celtics fan) anchored the Lakers defense and also had an outsized impact on the offense as well.
The play #1 from the Youtube video is just silly. Probably could post that alone as a counter.
“ The myth is real.”
We all witnessed the emergence of that myth in real time and we all collectively agreed that it was true. Yeah Magic and Bird had been dominant with their rings but by the time Jordan won DPOY in 1988 no one really tried to argue he wasn’t the league’s superstar at that point.
There’s nothing more annoying than Bronsexuals (and Ronaldosexuals) Yes, he’s great but not MJ.
So far there has been a Tom, a Thom and a Thomas all commenting on Ehtan's post about not just Nick Wright, but Tom Haberstroh. Did Tom put Thom up to this, or was it Thomas?
I agree with narrow thrust of your article: the definitely inflated stats for Jordon don't necessarily mean he didn't deserve DPOY. And I don't know the year but I trust you when it sounds like he did given the competition.
But it's the last part, "given the competition," that is my takeaway for the broader Jordan versus LeBron debate. There was no compelling alternative that year which was lucky. In the same way Jordan was indeed lucky to play in a diluted from expansion time. You can only beat who is in front of you but you need to be honest about who's in front of you in awards and championships.
Finally, people use the DPOY to argue Jordan is an overall better defender than LeBron at peak and/or career. You didn't, but that's part of the pushback from those like Wright on the award. You didn't address that question but the reference to "perimeter defender" gives away some of the game here. Nobody grades offense by position in overall awards...
Um, just the clip showed included:
* Hakeem Olajuwon
* Charles Barkley
* Patrick Ewing
* Kevin McHale
* John Stockton
These are not exactly slouches.
It is true that Jordan's DPOY came as Michael Cooper was fading and Dennis Rodman was ascending. But that still left a formidable field; they just couldn't match where Jordan was.
When Michael Jordan did not win the MVP, the winners were Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, or Karl Malone (because people were tired of giving Jordan the award). LeBron has lost it to significantly lesser players.
1) The players you list in the clip, ignoring Stockton, must not have had a great year almost definitionally in my book for 6'6" 210lb perimeter player to be considered the best defensive player by a comfortable margin while also playing (more realistically) the best offense. That's kind of my point.
2) I didn't tip my hand to LeBron versus Jordan on my ultimate opinion, but my field in front of you applies more to team competition in that era than individual awards - though I think it's indisputable overall outside of anything Jordan specific that the more recent, internationalized NBA is richer in individual talent.
P.S. I also think something you're in awe of that cements the wonder of Jordan should instead make you suspicious: actually being the most impactful offensive and defensive player simultaneously in the same season. Perhaps a person has the potential ceiling to do this theoretically but actually achieving it for a full season, as you seem to contend Jordan did, should require an extraordinary amount of evidence and reflection. It seems to require a God, a clever narrative, or very weak competition.
An exquisite piece.
The best philosophy/essays say what you were thinking and wanted to say but could not put into words; they give one the feeling of revelation - "Yes, that's exactly the issue I saw/point I wanted to make but could not formulate; you've nailed it."
Such is my feeling reading this piece. Bless you mate for articulating what so many of us wish we could say (and know to be true) but could not put into words. Thank you
No, I don't think I'll give First Things First a chance.
>Remember, this was back in the day, when Scottie Pippen is a rookie who started zero games.
He did play 21 minutes a game of very good defense...
>But here’s the issue: The Bulls were 3rd in defensive rating, absent a great defensive center, and the Lakers were 9th.
There are 8-9 dudes playing a night, this isn't even an argument, just pure stupidity. It has literally nothing to do with who "deserved DPOY" if that is what we are talking about.
>It’s just difficult to assert that 31 year-old Michael Cooper had more of an impact on his team’s defense that season than 24 year-old Michael Jordan.
I don't really think you are in any position to say this without watching like 40 games of each team.
To be clear overall I don't really have a position, I was 7 an in no position to judge. Just pointing out where your arguments were quite weak.
Pippen was regarded as the best defensive player on the championship Bulls team. Without this context, one might have assumed that it was Pippen, not Jordan, who was leading the team to their improved defense. Pippen contriuted, but was not the driving force.
Not sure what you mean by your second point. Great defensive teams, particularly in the 80s were generally anchored by great defensive centers. This was the era of Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, and Patrick Ewing. I'm thinking Dan Corzine was not the primary factor in the Bulls' defensive performance.
Your third point is where I want to scream "WE WERE THERE!!!" I watched Michael Cooper, and then Michael Jordan. I saw how Cooper was aging I knew he was never more than an excellent sixth man, and had declined to less than that by 1988. He did not have the impact Jordan did.
Jordan won the award by a vote of his contemporaries who did watch each of them play 40 games. If you are arguing he didn't deserver the award, then someone else did. If you claim that someone is Michael Cooper, you need to explain how he had a greater impact as a 31 year old playing a part-time schedule that somehow escaped the voters who had given him the award the previous year.
Yeah but Ethan wasn’t there either.
And 21 minutes a game of elite defense is for sure enough to make a huge difference. Your assertion that isn’t enough isn’t really based on anything, it all depends on whose minutes he was replacing, something Ethan didn’t talk about at all.
I am not arguing anything other than Ethan made some bad points.
I have literally zero opinion of who deserves DPOY that year. I wasn’t there.