If Tiger Woods ran a decades long info war against Jack Nickolaus to undermine his standing directly resulting in a never ending discourse about whether previous generations of golfers could compete against modern athletes, people would resent him. As it is, people love Tiger despite his public failings.
The streets will debate Bron/Kobe forever. Bron/Mike was always astroturfed.
By the time MJ was LeBron's age, he had retired from basketball three times. MJ is cooler (more aura, I guess), but LeBron has a more impressive career because of the unprecedented longevity and achievements.
Easy there. Lebron COULD have had a more impressive career. He had more physical talent, more willingness to play LeGM when needed, and longevity.
He did not have a more impressive career. Jordan dominated the sport in a way no other athlete has ever approached a modern team sport.
Gretzky - Great but not Jordan great
Bonds - All the WAR in the world didn't fill his hands with rings. Could choose Ruth, but put him on the Giants and he wouldn't have any rings either.
Brady - He has the best argument after his run with the Bucs. Harder sport to win in than basketball as a star. But his tangibles don't back up the claim he's the greatest ever.
Ronaldino/Messi/Ronaldo - No
Tiger is the only athlete who could dream of making the argument. And considering what he dominated wasn't a team sport, I would not put him up there.
But perhaps the biggest contender to Jordan is Djokovic. Djokovic's career is like if Jordan's first three-peat came in 1985, cutting short the reigns of both Bird and Magic. And then held off Shaq and Kobe for a few chips as well.
Ok Grandpa. Jack could out drive Tiger. I'll get your whiskey you sit down and rest. If Tiger didn't have back problems and a pill addiction no one would be questioning this. Delusional
Score, win %, tangibles. Tiger wins in every category....? Except longevity related stats.
Tennis you may be right. I considered adding that. But I do not know or care about tennis. The overlap between NBA and Tennis fans is no negligible as to not be worth mentioning.
Bonds would have crushed in Ruth's era. What are you talking about? Old white guys don't think Bonds is the greatest? No one thinks he's the greatest, is that true, Sasha? lol
Very important point that Lebron's pursuit of Jordan's greatness died a long time ago. He can't be 1A on a championship team, win MVPs, or DPOY in his late 30s/40s. He missed his chance. The accumulation of numbers are basically a cope for this. This matters for future GOAT debates too. Wemby doesn't have *that* long. It takes time to win championships and MVPs and the window closes quick.
I love watching LeBron, feel lucky to have been able to watch 20 years of it.
But Lebron and Michael both stopped competing for championships when they were 35/36.
They both took a gap year in their prime (94 for MJ; 2019 baby lakers for LeBron).
After the Solomon Hill injury, Lebron has just been playing for stats. Which is fine, competing for championships is hard and involves some luck.
To me, he is clearly better than everyone besides MJ (Kareem, Kobe, Magic, all his more modern peers pretty easily). And he even has an argument vs MJ, I just don’t think he wins it.
If Tiger Woods ran a decades long info war against Jack Nickolaus to undermine his standing directly resulting in a never ending discourse about whether previous generations of golfers could compete against modern athletes, people would resent him. As it is, people love Tiger despite his public failings.
The streets will debate Bron/Kobe forever. Bron/Mike was always astroturfed.
By the time MJ was LeBron's age, he had retired from basketball three times. MJ is cooler (more aura, I guess), but LeBron has a more impressive career because of the unprecedented longevity and achievements.
Easy there. Lebron COULD have had a more impressive career. He had more physical talent, more willingness to play LeGM when needed, and longevity.
He did not have a more impressive career. Jordan dominated the sport in a way no other athlete has ever approached a modern team sport.
Gretzky - Great but not Jordan great
Bonds - All the WAR in the world didn't fill his hands with rings. Could choose Ruth, but put him on the Giants and he wouldn't have any rings either.
Brady - He has the best argument after his run with the Bucs. Harder sport to win in than basketball as a star. But his tangibles don't back up the claim he's the greatest ever.
Ronaldino/Messi/Ronaldo - No
Tiger is the only athlete who could dream of making the argument. And considering what he dominated wasn't a team sport, I would not put him up there.
This is insane.
Nobody thinks that Barry Bonds or Ronaldino (sic) are the best in their sports, and most people do not think Tiger is the GOAT.
Jordan does not need to be disserved by sloppy comparisons.
It's obviously Gretzky, Ruth, Brady, Messi, Nicklaus...
But perhaps the biggest contender to Jordan is Djokovic. Djokovic's career is like if Jordan's first three-peat came in 1985, cutting short the reigns of both Bird and Magic. And then held off Shaq and Kobe for a few chips as well.
Ok Grandpa. Jack could out drive Tiger. I'll get your whiskey you sit down and rest. If Tiger didn't have back problems and a pill addiction no one would be questioning this. Delusional
Score, win %, tangibles. Tiger wins in every category....? Except longevity related stats.
Tennis you may be right. I considered adding that. But I do not know or care about tennis. The overlap between NBA and Tennis fans is no negligible as to not be worth mentioning.
Bonds would have crushed in Ruth's era. What are you talking about? Old white guys don't think Bonds is the greatest? No one thinks he's the greatest, is that true, Sasha? lol
You are out of your depth bud
Not a Laker fan and dont live in LA, but I just never got the vibe he was welcomed there.
Agreed. Even the announcers mentioned how quiet the crowd was at the start of game 3.
Very important point that Lebron's pursuit of Jordan's greatness died a long time ago. He can't be 1A on a championship team, win MVPs, or DPOY in his late 30s/40s. He missed his chance. The accumulation of numbers are basically a cope for this. This matters for future GOAT debates too. Wemby doesn't have *that* long. It takes time to win championships and MVPs and the window closes quick.
You know, Hank Aaron having more career home runs than Babe Ruth might just be the perfect comparison to LeBron-MJ.
I think it’s closer to Babe Ruth / Bonds (which never actually occurred because of Hank in between)
Or what Brady / Mahomes will, or already has, turned into
I love watching LeBron, feel lucky to have been able to watch 20 years of it.
But Lebron and Michael both stopped competing for championships when they were 35/36.
They both took a gap year in their prime (94 for MJ; 2019 baby lakers for LeBron).
After the Solomon Hill injury, Lebron has just been playing for stats. Which is fine, competing for championships is hard and involves some luck.
To me, he is clearly better than everyone besides MJ (Kareem, Kobe, Magic, all his more modern peers pretty easily). And he even has an argument vs MJ, I just don’t think he wins it.