I find Wright insufferable because he's in the sensational sports talk game (e.g. Skip, Stephen A, etc) but he presents himself as if he's in the analytical, rational sports talk game (e.g. Kevin O'Connor, Bill Barnwell, etc).
The sensationalist guys don't bother me because I know it's theater, they know it's theater, we all know it's theater. Nick Wright won't admit that, he wants to have it both ways- A highly profitable TV personality but also someone who clings to his identity as a sports fan who is more right that others.
That works for Cowherd because he doesn't get angry and always seems light. It works for Simmons because he highlights his misses and jokes about it. It works for Russillo because he often makes a point to tell his audience that he recognizes he doesn't know as much as the coaches and players he is criticizing.
my big issue with Nick is that he doesn't seem to enjoy sports.
it sounds counterintuitive and I do believe he likes watching his team win sports games, but every time he talks about lebron or josh Allen or whoever else its never about what actually happened on the field/court at the time. its about how lebron will be considered the goat 50 yrs from now or how the Bills are not a rival to the chiefs bc they haven't won a meaningful game against them.
that kind of stuff literally only matters on these sports shows, and that's how he views everything. its never about how exciting the game was and why its awesome. and I get it, these shows demand something else but they're not really about sports, more about the conversation about sports.
anyone whose watched the NFL the past few years would tell you the matchup they would most want to see in the playoffs is Bills vs Chiefs because they've provided the most entertaining back and forth games, and the teams are incredible equal (coming into Sunday the Bills and Chiefs were tied in aggregate points scored in their matchups against each other) - who cares if its a "rivalry" or not, we know the game is going to be close and worth watching which should be enough. we are so lucky to see these two teams, who are basically equal, compete at a high level. its every football fan's dream! but not nick wright's dream.
Yes. Watching that game was awesome. Thinking about it during the week was awesome. This is....or at least should be...exactly what sports is about. It's the whole point - awesome, high stakes games with excellent teams and players.
The Athletic Football show, for example, will start their segment about a game like this talking about how awesome it was. Because they actually love football. I don't want to consume any media that doesn't appreciate that games are great.
Agree with your top point about him not liking sports. Nick is like the sportswriter who seems a little insecure/embarrassed he’s a sportswriter — mostly because this cohort wants to project themselves as intellectuals and they don’t respect their audience.
Never seen Nick’s show, but he comes off that way from his HoS appearances.
it also seems like he tolerates being wrong and made fun of rather than embraces it, as Ethan says in this post. I have a feeling if you told him his show ratings, fame, $$$ etc. wouldn't change if his show wasn't allowed to give him that much shit when he was wrong, he would take it in a heartbeat, and really only does it bc his show would likely be unwatchable if they didn't do those things (I dont watch his show either but have seen clips)
DeBoer is overwrought but, man is Wright* a living personification of why every culture in the history of cultures has and have “how much we despise lawyers” jokes.
And it would be one thing if he was either dumb and certain in believing dumb things (can be funny!) or smart and overly certain in holding into wrong things (such blowhards can be amusing!) but he is a midwit, certain, and stubborn (these people need to be quarantined to Park Slope!) Just smart enough to use ambulance chaser rhetorical tricks, not smart enough to get away with it, too dumb to know how and when to concede things.
To the extent he has a skill, it’s knowing he is naturally abrasive and pairing that with the obnoxious rhetorical style to make himself a heel we all want to see given the Stone Cold Stunner. None of this should be encouraged!
*Caveat -- this largely negative opinion is formed by his appearances on your show and a few random clips from his show.
That's the dirty secret about these shows that no one wants to admit. These shows are designed to appeal toward unemployed black men who sit at home and then take these takes over to twitter.
The success of these daytime programs cannot be determined by audience size, but rather the quality of advertisers. The CPMs have to be bottom of the barrel because the primary demographic watching them are not going to have disposable income.
Nick is the worst. I generally don’t like him as a person. He thinks he’s so much smarter than everyone even though 90% of the time his arguments have easy counters but Wildes and Brou just won’t say these obvious counters because they don’t know sports or football well enough.
He’s also annoying because he was the biggest Tom Brady doubter for years even though Brady always won, and now he gets mad when anyone doubts Mahomes or the Chiefs because Mahomes always wins. He just makes whatever argument or shows whatever stat he can that fits his narrative. For instance, he hates QB wins as a stat but constantly show’s Mahomes record as proof of how great he is.
I trust you’re judgement and excellently written. The one thing I would say is you know Nick personally which, so you can see who the real guy is.
All I could do is go off of what I see on tv and clips. The problem I have it’s doesn’t seem like he’s on tv having fun and keeping things loose like you suggest. Sure the regular segments are fun, but the clips of when he’s talking about Josh, Purdy, Jokic, Jordan he doesn’t seem like he’s here for fun and games. He comes across as if you shouldn’t even have a conversation if you disagree. Also, I hate the argument tactic of saying the argument is ridiculous to even consider which he does often.
I agree with DeBoer, this guy comes across like a complete jerk and not in a charming way. The show might be fun, but I wish they had people on to give actual pushback.
Freddie's article was kinda great, though Nick has to get in line behind #1 Allen hater Bomani. Though, in true Bomani fashion, most of his Allen hate is just to troll on racial basis.
(Bomani's MO: imply something as clearly as possible without outright saying it, then when someone takes the bait, respond with "where did I say that? That's on you". It's disingenuous and exhausting)
I also have to give him props for sticking up for my guy Trae Young. It's true, Trae's Narrative was written coming out of college and into his terrible summer league debut, and people have dug their feet in and are never going to get past the "can't defend, ball hog, stat chaser, bad leader, foul merchant" stuff. And it certainly didn't help that he was swapped for NBA Golden Boy Luka (who has taken his team just as far as Trae has in their careers , but that's another story)
Yea it's funny that Bomani's take is that the media loves Josh Allen because he is white. Freddie Deboer in criticizing Nick Wright said the media hates Josh Allen because they all thought he would suck coming out of the draft. So does the media hate or love Josh Allen? Both? I don't know. It almost as if people just have their personal takes and look to the media to confirm what they want to believe. I'm guilty of it too, we all are.
That FDB piece is wild, like reading 1,000 words about what Rick Rude owes to the sweathogs of Minnesota. It's cool to witness all this, because by the time I grew up everybody knew wrestling was fake and was more focused on meta-commentary than on actually hating the wrestlers.
Part of the problem with Bayesian priors being applied to this kind of opinion-having is that in actual probability theory, your prior is not of the moment but is at least a *little* dynamic as new information comes in. Sports and political commentators in particular seem to think it means never wavering from your initial read and ignoring evidence to the contrary; "I thought Josh Allen sucked in college and should be a third-round pick" becomes static and holds more weight as analysis than realized NFL success of three top-5 MVP finishes in four years, a 58-24 record as a full-season starter, and 220 passing/rushing TDs before he's 28 years old.
Great piece as usual. I like Nick Wright, even as someone who probably has the polar opposite political leanings as him and is a lifelong Aaron Rodgers fan. I do think the criticism of Nick's cable TV persona is fair in some respects for how over the top and dug into his takes he can be. I get it though, cable shows kind of require you to play a more outlandish version of yourself in most cases. I saw him on Colin Cowherd's podcast this past week and was super impressed by Nick. I had never seen him in that medium before and he's a seriously talented broadcaster/media figure. It made me wonder, as cable tv dies its slow and inevitable death, are the most talented media figures of today better off cutting bait the way guys like Simmons/Russillo and to a lesser extent Jason Whitlock did and go their own way to Youtube/Spotify or wherever that may be and do their own thing where their talent really does truly shine. It makes them come across more authentic to a fan like me because I know this is their actual opinion and allows for a more nuanced discussion. Either way, this was probably too long of a comment.
Yep. He’s got a presence about him which is super important in that world and articulates his takes waaay better than on cable. Long form podcasts allow for that though, tough to do in a segmented tv show with multiple topics
Freddie is a great critic who gets so passionate about his takes that he loses sight of reality sometimes. He did it with his anti-Zionist takes and he did it with his unhinged, unbalanced take on one of the most intelligent sports pundits around.
I had to finally unsub. He's an incredible writer, and the Israel stuff was the tipping point, but his arrogance and condesention to any of his readers that dared disagree with him was a big turnoff.
DeBoer is absolutely a great writer, but in addition to his arrogance and condescension, he comes across as malignant. I mean, I am no fan of Wright, but to read DeBoer, you’d think that Nick assassinated his favorite political figure. It’s obscene the language he used, and then to lambaste Broussard with “Jesus freak” while I’m sure never having personally met the man, and his par-for-the-course political tribalism of “Republicans are terrible” in taking potshots at KC fans, it’s just weird. Incidentally, it’s the same thing that he accuses Wright of being: obsessively hating someone he does not personally know and was wrong about.
Ethan have thought about how these types of shows have contributed to the more event nature of sports, especially in the NBA. 10-15 years ago Skip and SAS started getting traction and elevated Ringz culture which lead to Lebron leaving Cleveland and making the championship even more important. Hence players stopped taking the regular season as seriously because they would be judged by “when it mattered”, and ratings fell as a result.
I find Wright insufferable because he's in the sensational sports talk game (e.g. Skip, Stephen A, etc) but he presents himself as if he's in the analytical, rational sports talk game (e.g. Kevin O'Connor, Bill Barnwell, etc).
The sensationalist guys don't bother me because I know it's theater, they know it's theater, we all know it's theater. Nick Wright won't admit that, he wants to have it both ways- A highly profitable TV personality but also someone who clings to his identity as a sports fan who is more right that others.
That works for Cowherd because he doesn't get angry and always seems light. It works for Simmons because he highlights his misses and jokes about it. It works for Russillo because he often makes a point to tell his audience that he recognizes he doesn't know as much as the coaches and players he is criticizing.
my big issue with Nick is that he doesn't seem to enjoy sports.
it sounds counterintuitive and I do believe he likes watching his team win sports games, but every time he talks about lebron or josh Allen or whoever else its never about what actually happened on the field/court at the time. its about how lebron will be considered the goat 50 yrs from now or how the Bills are not a rival to the chiefs bc they haven't won a meaningful game against them.
that kind of stuff literally only matters on these sports shows, and that's how he views everything. its never about how exciting the game was and why its awesome. and I get it, these shows demand something else but they're not really about sports, more about the conversation about sports.
anyone whose watched the NFL the past few years would tell you the matchup they would most want to see in the playoffs is Bills vs Chiefs because they've provided the most entertaining back and forth games, and the teams are incredible equal (coming into Sunday the Bills and Chiefs were tied in aggregate points scored in their matchups against each other) - who cares if its a "rivalry" or not, we know the game is going to be close and worth watching which should be enough. we are so lucky to see these two teams, who are basically equal, compete at a high level. its every football fan's dream! but not nick wright's dream.
Ding ding ding. He is about the discourse, not the thing itself.
Yes. Watching that game was awesome. Thinking about it during the week was awesome. This is....or at least should be...exactly what sports is about. It's the whole point - awesome, high stakes games with excellent teams and players.
The Athletic Football show, for example, will start their segment about a game like this talking about how awesome it was. Because they actually love football. I don't want to consume any media that doesn't appreciate that games are great.
Agree with your top point about him not liking sports. Nick is like the sportswriter who seems a little insecure/embarrassed he’s a sportswriter — mostly because this cohort wants to project themselves as intellectuals and they don’t respect their audience.
Never seen Nick’s show, but he comes off that way from his HoS appearances.
it also seems like he tolerates being wrong and made fun of rather than embraces it, as Ethan says in this post. I have a feeling if you told him his show ratings, fame, $$$ etc. wouldn't change if his show wasn't allowed to give him that much shit when he was wrong, he would take it in a heartbeat, and really only does it bc his show would likely be unwatchable if they didn't do those things (I dont watch his show either but have seen clips)
DeBoer is overwrought but, man is Wright* a living personification of why every culture in the history of cultures has and have “how much we despise lawyers” jokes.
And it would be one thing if he was either dumb and certain in believing dumb things (can be funny!) or smart and overly certain in holding into wrong things (such blowhards can be amusing!) but he is a midwit, certain, and stubborn (these people need to be quarantined to Park Slope!) Just smart enough to use ambulance chaser rhetorical tricks, not smart enough to get away with it, too dumb to know how and when to concede things.
To the extent he has a skill, it’s knowing he is naturally abrasive and pairing that with the obnoxious rhetorical style to make himself a heel we all want to see given the Stone Cold Stunner. None of this should be encouraged!
*Caveat -- this largely negative opinion is formed by his appearances on your show and a few random clips from his show.
Who watches these shows? I work full time only catch the show if I’m sick. Who is the audience?
Mostly unemployed black men.
That's the dirty secret about these shows that no one wants to admit. These shows are designed to appeal toward unemployed black men who sit at home and then take these takes over to twitter.
The success of these daytime programs cannot be determined by audience size, but rather the quality of advertisers. The CPMs have to be bottom of the barrel because the primary demographic watching them are not going to have disposable income.
Nick is the worst. I generally don’t like him as a person. He thinks he’s so much smarter than everyone even though 90% of the time his arguments have easy counters but Wildes and Brou just won’t say these obvious counters because they don’t know sports or football well enough.
He’s also annoying because he was the biggest Tom Brady doubter for years even though Brady always won, and now he gets mad when anyone doubts Mahomes or the Chiefs because Mahomes always wins. He just makes whatever argument or shows whatever stat he can that fits his narrative. For instance, he hates QB wins as a stat but constantly show’s Mahomes record as proof of how great he is.
I trust you’re judgement and excellently written. The one thing I would say is you know Nick personally which, so you can see who the real guy is.
All I could do is go off of what I see on tv and clips. The problem I have it’s doesn’t seem like he’s on tv having fun and keeping things loose like you suggest. Sure the regular segments are fun, but the clips of when he’s talking about Josh, Purdy, Jokic, Jordan he doesn’t seem like he’s here for fun and games. He comes across as if you shouldn’t even have a conversation if you disagree. Also, I hate the argument tactic of saying the argument is ridiculous to even consider which he does often.
I agree with DeBoer, this guy comes across like a complete jerk and not in a charming way. The show might be fun, but I wish they had people on to give actual pushback.
Freddie's article was kinda great, though Nick has to get in line behind #1 Allen hater Bomani. Though, in true Bomani fashion, most of his Allen hate is just to troll on racial basis.
(Bomani's MO: imply something as clearly as possible without outright saying it, then when someone takes the bait, respond with "where did I say that? That's on you". It's disingenuous and exhausting)
I also have to give him props for sticking up for my guy Trae Young. It's true, Trae's Narrative was written coming out of college and into his terrible summer league debut, and people have dug their feet in and are never going to get past the "can't defend, ball hog, stat chaser, bad leader, foul merchant" stuff. And it certainly didn't help that he was swapped for NBA Golden Boy Luka (who has taken his team just as far as Trae has in their careers , but that's another story)
Yea it's funny that Bomani's take is that the media loves Josh Allen because he is white. Freddie Deboer in criticizing Nick Wright said the media hates Josh Allen because they all thought he would suck coming out of the draft. So does the media hate or love Josh Allen? Both? I don't know. It almost as if people just have their personal takes and look to the media to confirm what they want to believe. I'm guilty of it too, we all are.
That FDB piece is wild, like reading 1,000 words about what Rick Rude owes to the sweathogs of Minnesota. It's cool to witness all this, because by the time I grew up everybody knew wrestling was fake and was more focused on meta-commentary than on actually hating the wrestlers.
He’s not Rick Rude. You could very plausibly want to be Rick Rude. He’s....Jimmy Hart?
Part of the problem with Bayesian priors being applied to this kind of opinion-having is that in actual probability theory, your prior is not of the moment but is at least a *little* dynamic as new information comes in. Sports and political commentators in particular seem to think it means never wavering from your initial read and ignoring evidence to the contrary; "I thought Josh Allen sucked in college and should be a third-round pick" becomes static and holds more weight as analysis than realized NFL success of three top-5 MVP finishes in four years, a 58-24 record as a full-season starter, and 220 passing/rushing TDs before he's 28 years old.
"Shameless Clown" is pretty apt for most TV personalities though... :)
Great piece as usual. I like Nick Wright, even as someone who probably has the polar opposite political leanings as him and is a lifelong Aaron Rodgers fan. I do think the criticism of Nick's cable TV persona is fair in some respects for how over the top and dug into his takes he can be. I get it though, cable shows kind of require you to play a more outlandish version of yourself in most cases. I saw him on Colin Cowherd's podcast this past week and was super impressed by Nick. I had never seen him in that medium before and he's a seriously talented broadcaster/media figure. It made me wonder, as cable tv dies its slow and inevitable death, are the most talented media figures of today better off cutting bait the way guys like Simmons/Russillo and to a lesser extent Jason Whitlock did and go their own way to Youtube/Spotify or wherever that may be and do their own thing where their talent really does truly shine. It makes them come across more authentic to a fan like me because I know this is their actual opinion and allows for a more nuanced discussion. Either way, this was probably too long of a comment.
Nick a lot better on podcasts than any First Things First clip I've seen.
Yep. He’s got a presence about him which is super important in that world and articulates his takes waaay better than on cable. Long form podcasts allow for that though, tough to do in a segmented tv show with multiple topics
Pod: Ethan as host. Fred vs. Nick. Wos as judge/jury.
Make it happen.
I want Amin and Nate Duncan to round out the jury.
I wouldn't watch Nick Wright at gunpoint but that's me
Freddie is a great critic who gets so passionate about his takes that he loses sight of reality sometimes. He did it with his anti-Zionist takes and he did it with his unhinged, unbalanced take on one of the most intelligent sports pundits around.
I had to finally unsub. He's an incredible writer, and the Israel stuff was the tipping point, but his arrogance and condesention to any of his readers that dared disagree with him was a big turnoff.
DeBoer is absolutely a great writer, but in addition to his arrogance and condescension, he comes across as malignant. I mean, I am no fan of Wright, but to read DeBoer, you’d think that Nick assassinated his favorite political figure. It’s obscene the language he used, and then to lambaste Broussard with “Jesus freak” while I’m sure never having personally met the man, and his par-for-the-course political tribalism of “Republicans are terrible” in taking potshots at KC fans, it’s just weird. Incidentally, it’s the same thing that he accuses Wright of being: obsessively hating someone he does not personally know and was wrong about.
Ethan have thought about how these types of shows have contributed to the more event nature of sports, especially in the NBA. 10-15 years ago Skip and SAS started getting traction and elevated Ringz culture which lead to Lebron leaving Cleveland and making the championship even more important. Hence players stopped taking the regular season as seriously because they would be judged by “when it mattered”, and ratings fell as a result.
I respect you not wanting to “take down Freddie’s takedown” with the same bile that DeBoer released, but man, that would also be so fun to read!