Enjoyed the conversation. Would have been interesting to hear about how foreign betting companies compare to American ones. Having lived in Hong Kong and visited the UK, betting seems a big deal there. Are winners similarly shut out?
The thing I discovered here that I never thought about before but seems obvious in retrospect is that the books’ ability to surveil and shut down winners actually probably also makes it almost impossible for players/coaches/refs to meaningfully throw games, so the original objection people had about legalized gambling turns out to have been the wrong one.
I personally just don’t have the gambling addiction gene, I can’t really stomach putting large amounts on sports, let alone cards. I like being able to do a little emotional hedging (bet against my team when they’re heavily favored so I at least get a reward if they get upset), but I can’t identify at all with the idea of just betting on a team all season and then running out of money and giving up on the sport. But obviously there is some subset of people who are susceptible to this. I’d endorse Harolobob’s ideas, would make for a good reform to keep betting open without making it dependent on the worst addicts.
I am a gambler, have been all my life, but I'm also well ahead (yes, I keep a ledger) because I only play games where I have an edge - specifically NBA futures and poker. So, I am not a wowser, and not anti-gambling in general. But the way sports gambling is incessantly advertised and promoted, and targetted at the vulnerable, makes my stomach turn.
Advertsing gambling sites should be as illegal as advertising cigarettes, but instead it is embeded in the fabric of sports coverage, and it has warped the minds of young people to believe it is "normal". It's not. You can enjoy sport in myriad ways without ever wagering a dollar on it. Sports gambling is the most pernicious form of gambling because it turns an otherwise healthy and community-building activity into one that tears families and communities apart in the name of endless profit to bookmakers.
There's an old saying from 1980s Australia that "everything that happens in America trickles down to us a decade later". When it comes to ubiquitous sports gambling, it's the rare case of the other way around - we have had it poisoning our society for decades now. Learn from our failures and regulate it properly.
Wonder if gambling will become like smoking where the tobacco companies are totally banned from advertising their products and have faced massive class action lawsuits for their predatory practices. You can see the similarities in how the betting companies gamify their products to make them as addictive as possible and they I’m sure they really understand the damage their doing to large numbers of their customers
Or like the opioid epidemic like he compared it to. Obviously that’s still an issue but Perdue was sued into bankruptcy. Maybe not a risk being priced into these stocks…
In the United States commercial law keeps the trains running on time and has proven far more effective at regulating corporations than the government. If you fuck up you probably will have a to pay. It’s why the idea of tort reform is such a dangerous one
You can get up to date voter registration data that includes the person's race (if they choose to self-indentify). You can't get up-to-the-minute data on who voted or who they voted for.
May I make a suggestion? It would be great if the show notes could have links to subjects at a given time in the discussion-- helps with zeroing in on a section you're particularly interested in.
I know that takes time and effort but it would be a big help.
Okay yeah this was really disappointing. Promised a topic with someone with expertise and then took 59 minutes to get to any discussion that took advantage of that expertise instead of just being a rehash of the same different stories about how recs get screwed.
Is the advertising making it easier to find the beards? More of the stuff like that prop stuff at 1:05, less pontificating the same stuff you'd go over with Ryan.
Hope this gets into it, but I have the same question about the sports gambling industry that I do about modern Hollywood - if this is so shitty for everyone involved and the companies apparently aren't making any money, where the hell is all the money going?
Haven’t finished the pod yet, but what makes you think companies aren’t making money? The leagues, casinos, and betting companies are making a ton of money. Casinos make more on the table games but they still make a lot of money from sports gambling.
Drafkings and Fanduel both lose about a billion dollars a year, BetMGM (the app) loses 100-200 million (90 in 2023, 200 in 2022 and 2021). Caesars digital had EBITDA of 38 million in 2023, but lost 666 million in 2022 and 476 million in 2021. It's not even worth talking about what a shitshow Penn/ESPNBet/Barstool is.
Actual Casinos are something else, but like the apps seem to be both terrible for all the players (recs get screwed, winners get banned) and terrible businesses. They'd probably be better off as companies if advertising was banned at this point.
Didn’t know that. Looks like Fanduel’s EBITDA was in the positive for 2023, DraftKings isn’t but looks like they are losing much less than a billion but still in the hundreds of millions.
People also conflate losing money as a business due to business expenses vs. Losing money to the gamblers placing phone wagers at scale. The first one is happening, not the second one.
Enjoyed the conversation. Would have been interesting to hear about how foreign betting companies compare to American ones. Having lived in Hong Kong and visited the UK, betting seems a big deal there. Are winners similarly shut out?
The thing I discovered here that I never thought about before but seems obvious in retrospect is that the books’ ability to surveil and shut down winners actually probably also makes it almost impossible for players/coaches/refs to meaningfully throw games, so the original objection people had about legalized gambling turns out to have been the wrong one.
I personally just don’t have the gambling addiction gene, I can’t really stomach putting large amounts on sports, let alone cards. I like being able to do a little emotional hedging (bet against my team when they’re heavily favored so I at least get a reward if they get upset), but I can’t identify at all with the idea of just betting on a team all season and then running out of money and giving up on the sport. But obviously there is some subset of people who are susceptible to this. I’d endorse Harolobob’s ideas, would make for a good reform to keep betting open without making it dependent on the worst addicts.
Why the no comment on a ballpark figure of what he clears in a year? What's the reason? Evading taxes? Modesty? He's full of shit?
Are you the feds?
Taylor Mathis also got caught up in a bizarre crypto scam controversy recently.
Excellent conversation.
A report in the Lancet recently labelled gambling a major, poorly addressed public health issue: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-25/health-impact-gambling-worldwide-much-worse-research-says/104516794 And a significant part of the concern is about sports gambling because it is so accessible to the young.
I am a gambler, have been all my life, but I'm also well ahead (yes, I keep a ledger) because I only play games where I have an edge - specifically NBA futures and poker. So, I am not a wowser, and not anti-gambling in general. But the way sports gambling is incessantly advertised and promoted, and targetted at the vulnerable, makes my stomach turn.
Advertsing gambling sites should be as illegal as advertising cigarettes, but instead it is embeded in the fabric of sports coverage, and it has warped the minds of young people to believe it is "normal". It's not. You can enjoy sport in myriad ways without ever wagering a dollar on it. Sports gambling is the most pernicious form of gambling because it turns an otherwise healthy and community-building activity into one that tears families and communities apart in the name of endless profit to bookmakers.
There's an old saying from 1980s Australia that "everything that happens in America trickles down to us a decade later". When it comes to ubiquitous sports gambling, it's the rare case of the other way around - we have had it poisoning our society for decades now. Learn from our failures and regulate it properly.
Wonder if gambling will become like smoking where the tobacco companies are totally banned from advertising their products and have faced massive class action lawsuits for their predatory practices. You can see the similarities in how the betting companies gamify their products to make them as addictive as possible and they I’m sure they really understand the damage their doing to large numbers of their customers
Or like the opioid epidemic like he compared it to. Obviously that’s still an issue but Perdue was sued into bankruptcy. Maybe not a risk being priced into these stocks…
In the United States commercial law keeps the trains running on time and has proven far more effective at regulating corporations than the government. If you fuck up you probably will have a to pay. It’s why the idea of tort reform is such a dangerous one
re: North Carolina
You can get up to date voter registration data that includes the person's race (if they choose to self-indentify). You can't get up-to-the-minute data on who voted or who they voted for.
Very good discussion, thanks for doing it.
May I make a suggestion? It would be great if the show notes could have links to subjects at a given time in the discussion-- helps with zeroing in on a section you're particularly interested in.
I know that takes time and effort but it would be a big help.
Okay yeah this was really disappointing. Promised a topic with someone with expertise and then took 59 minutes to get to any discussion that took advantage of that expertise instead of just being a rehash of the same different stories about how recs get screwed.
Is the advertising making it easier to find the beards? More of the stuff like that prop stuff at 1:05, less pontificating the same stuff you'd go over with Ryan.
Did you tune in for betting advice?
Hope this gets into it, but I have the same question about the sports gambling industry that I do about modern Hollywood - if this is so shitty for everyone involved and the companies apparently aren't making any money, where the hell is all the money going?
Right now, advertising and customer acquisition (promotions).
Good point
Haven’t finished the pod yet, but what makes you think companies aren’t making money? The leagues, casinos, and betting companies are making a ton of money. Casinos make more on the table games but they still make a lot of money from sports gambling.
Drafkings and Fanduel both lose about a billion dollars a year, BetMGM (the app) loses 100-200 million (90 in 2023, 200 in 2022 and 2021). Caesars digital had EBITDA of 38 million in 2023, but lost 666 million in 2022 and 476 million in 2021. It's not even worth talking about what a shitshow Penn/ESPNBet/Barstool is.
Actual Casinos are something else, but like the apps seem to be both terrible for all the players (recs get screwed, winners get banned) and terrible businesses. They'd probably be better off as companies if advertising was banned at this point.
Didn’t know that. Looks like Fanduel’s EBITDA was in the positive for 2023, DraftKings isn’t but looks like they are losing much less than a billion but still in the hundreds of millions.
People also conflate losing money as a business due to business expenses vs. Losing money to the gamblers placing phone wagers at scale. The first one is happening, not the second one.
Ultimately the money funnels into advertising and salaries. It's a bonanza for the leagues.
That would be my guess, anyways.