I think much, much more. I believe if Clark was as pretty as Bueckers but maintained that same chippy attitude she'd probably have been very unsubtly punched in the face by now.
WNBA might be a different story. Skyler Diggins had me interested largely because she was nice to look at. I’m reminded of our fellow San Diegan Candace Wiggins, attractive heterosexual girl in the WNBA, bullied all the way out.
This is interesting. I would say it’s less about their attractiveness and more about how their appearance represents aspirational masculinity amongst nba fans. AI would not have been as loved if it wasn’t for the cornrows, jewelry, and baggy clothes because those things made people shit even myself want to be like him. With Kobe it was the single-mindedness and the intensity that was visible in his appearance. I think u are seeing currently with KAT the opposite affect. He’s a pretty regular looking guy but his voice and mannerisms make people underrate how good he is because he reminds us of a guy who gets bullied.
Any baseball fans in here? José Ramírez is a perennial top-10 MVP candidate but doesn't get much buzz. I believe he's underrated (by everyone - fans, media, peers) not because he plays in Cleveland, but because he has a chubby face. He doesn't look like a generational ballplayer.
Shai mid at best (where’s his chin?), and Caruso may well be the fugliest baller in history of the league! Next to these mutts, Haliburton, Nesmith and Nembhard look like runway models
The extreme combo version of "either good looking or interesting looking" is EA Poe's line that "There is no exquisite beauty without some strangeness in the proportion."
“Chatter E” is correct. It’s not necessary to be conventionally attractive, being “striking” or having a look that fits type (Tony Siragusa and Richie Incognito were probably a little overrated because of this) helps just as much.
At the risk of calling forth another article, there are exceptions. The juxtaposition of Clark being pleasantly bland and the flashiness of her game helps get attention. Sometimes she reminds me of businessman haircut White Chocolate in this way (though he still had his tattoos)
I like the last take better. Good-looking OR interesting. Another example: Tim Duncan. Many (Bill Simmons, Rusillo ...) say he was the best player of his generation. Yet, not nearly as popular as he could have been. Not really good-looking, but also not interesting looking.
Interesting topic. I think "good looking" or "interesting looking" definitely has its appeal. For example, on the Heat Title winning teams, Bird-Man is incredibly memorable. But, was Mario Chalmers more impactful?
Also, if you take this paradigm outside of sports, and just look at gender in society;
A reasonably intelligent woman who is very good looking, is considered more qualified than an incredibly smart woman who is not necessarily all that attractive.
To unpack this some more, if a woman is really hot but not that bright, she is not someone who is looked upon to be responsible. But, if a woman is a combination of above-average intelligence and well above average looks, there are tons of opportunities for her.
The scenario I think of for men is, "if you are tall, you automatically are already considered smarter and better looking". A man doesn't even need to be that bright and people will artificially raise his IQ if he stands over 6'2.
I realize this is a public article. I hope I don't get crucified for making this observation, that I believe to be true.
Yeah height and the related voice deepness matters a lot for men.
I have a pretty strong leadery personality and generally run the social circles I am in. But I am 5’10” with a highish pitched voice.
So A). People tend to always think I am taller than I am. They never believe me when I say 5’10”.
And B). In new scenarios where this hasn’t had time to manifest people never ever think I should be a leader and resent me speaking up.
Just as a random example I worked at a consulting place when I was in my late 20s where I got hired in an entry level back office position and 4 years in was doing 3 different back office jobs and their star consultant and main revenue generator. It was a department of 7 people and I was doing 90% of the back end work and 35% of the front end work. When my boss asked where I saw myself in 5 years I said in a leadership position (she was like 60), and she literally laughed in my face.
I am convinced she never says that if I am 4 inches taller and/or was a bass instead of a soprano.
Joke's on her though as a few months later I quit and stole all their clients and made way more money for way less work. Worked out great for me!
Anyone who saw the IMAX documentary “Michael Jordan to the Max” knows MJ is one of the most stylish guys of all time. LeBron is not. And that must give Jordan an edge in the GOAT debate.
He made it cool to be bald at 30, which is maybe the most underrated thing about him! Lebron still the butt of hairline jokes for 10 years running... MJ just owned it and forced the publoc to embrace it! 1 of 1
Ethan, Michael Jordan = not ugly. Understatement of the year. Dude was a beast, all of 6’6 and handsome. The thing is even as younger kids during that MJ era (I believe you and I around the same age) his cool allure was magnified by his looks. I see it now, as I’m in Phoenix. Part of Devin Bookers coolness, is in fact his looks. That’s in all walks of life.
curious if Ethan or anyone else saw the viral tiktok where someone has the take that “aura”
is mainly a way for guys to call other guys attractive without saying it directly, thereby preserving their heterosexuality. i think it ties back to this quite a bit
If everything about Caitlin Clark is the same but she also looks like Anna Kournikova is she hated on by her peers more, less, or the same amount?
Great hypothetical
Oh absolutely more
I think much, much more. I believe if Clark was as pretty as Bueckers but maintained that same chippy attitude she'd probably have been very unsubtly punched in the face by now.
Less by some, more by others?
The WNBA players both want to murder her and fuck her!
WNBA might be a different story. Skyler Diggins had me interested largely because she was nice to look at. I’m reminded of our fellow San Diegan Candace Wiggins, attractive heterosexual girl in the WNBA, bullied all the way out.
This is interesting. I would say it’s less about their attractiveness and more about how their appearance represents aspirational masculinity amongst nba fans. AI would not have been as loved if it wasn’t for the cornrows, jewelry, and baggy clothes because those things made people shit even myself want to be like him. With Kobe it was the single-mindedness and the intensity that was visible in his appearance. I think u are seeing currently with KAT the opposite affect. He’s a pretty regular looking guy but his voice and mannerisms make people underrate how good he is because he reminds us of a guy who gets bullied.
Any baseball fans in here? José Ramírez is a perennial top-10 MVP candidate but doesn't get much buzz. I believe he's underrated (by everyone - fans, media, peers) not because he plays in Cleveland, but because he has a chubby face. He doesn't look like a generational ballplayer.
Shai mid at best (where’s his chin?), and Caruso may well be the fugliest baller in history of the league! Next to these mutts, Haliburton, Nesmith and Nembhard look like runway models
I think that's an asset in Caruso's case. Everyone remembers Kurt Rambis 40 years later because he was also fugly as you put it.
That was an amazing chat topic to article turnaround, Ethan!
Also, here's a potential case study: Hedo Turkoglu vs Wally Szerbiak
The extreme combo version of "either good looking or interesting looking" is EA Poe's line that "There is no exquisite beauty without some strangeness in the proportion."
“Chatter E” is correct. It’s not necessary to be conventionally attractive, being “striking” or having a look that fits type (Tony Siragusa and Richie Incognito were probably a little overrated because of this) helps just as much.
At the risk of calling forth another article, there are exceptions. The juxtaposition of Clark being pleasantly bland and the flashiness of her game helps get attention. Sometimes she reminds me of businessman haircut White Chocolate in this way (though he still had his tattoos)
Adrian Brody is an example in film.
Lots of character actors too.
This theory is right, and Chatter is wrong. Shai is very handsome and stylish
I like the last take better. Good-looking OR interesting. Another example: Tim Duncan. Many (Bill Simmons, Rusillo ...) say he was the best player of his generation. Yet, not nearly as popular as he could have been. Not really good-looking, but also not interesting looking.
But also a post player (harkening back to the A’ja Wilson comparison)
Interesting topic. I think "good looking" or "interesting looking" definitely has its appeal. For example, on the Heat Title winning teams, Bird-Man is incredibly memorable. But, was Mario Chalmers more impactful?
Also, if you take this paradigm outside of sports, and just look at gender in society;
A reasonably intelligent woman who is very good looking, is considered more qualified than an incredibly smart woman who is not necessarily all that attractive.
To unpack this some more, if a woman is really hot but not that bright, she is not someone who is looked upon to be responsible. But, if a woman is a combination of above-average intelligence and well above average looks, there are tons of opportunities for her.
The scenario I think of for men is, "if you are tall, you automatically are already considered smarter and better looking". A man doesn't even need to be that bright and people will artificially raise his IQ if he stands over 6'2.
I realize this is a public article. I hope I don't get crucified for making this observation, that I believe to be true.
Yeah height and the related voice deepness matters a lot for men.
I have a pretty strong leadery personality and generally run the social circles I am in. But I am 5’10” with a highish pitched voice.
So A). People tend to always think I am taller than I am. They never believe me when I say 5’10”.
And B). In new scenarios where this hasn’t had time to manifest people never ever think I should be a leader and resent me speaking up.
Just as a random example I worked at a consulting place when I was in my late 20s where I got hired in an entry level back office position and 4 years in was doing 3 different back office jobs and their star consultant and main revenue generator. It was a department of 7 people and I was doing 90% of the back end work and 35% of the front end work. When my boss asked where I saw myself in 5 years I said in a leadership position (she was like 60), and she literally laughed in my face.
I am convinced she never says that if I am 4 inches taller and/or was a bass instead of a soprano.
Joke's on her though as a few months later I quit and stole all their clients and made way more money for way less work. Worked out great for me!
I admire your chops! And your self-awareness! :-)
Anyone who saw the IMAX documentary “Michael Jordan to the Max” knows MJ is one of the most stylish guys of all time. LeBron is not. And that must give Jordan an edge in the GOAT debate.
He made it cool to be bald at 30, which is maybe the most underrated thing about him! Lebron still the butt of hairline jokes for 10 years running... MJ just owned it and forced the publoc to embrace it! 1 of 1
Ethan, Michael Jordan = not ugly. Understatement of the year. Dude was a beast, all of 6’6 and handsome. The thing is even as younger kids during that MJ era (I believe you and I around the same age) his cool allure was magnified by his looks. I see it now, as I’m in Phoenix. Part of Devin Bookers coolness, is in fact his looks. That’s in all walks of life.
I feel like Devin bookers appearance kind of hampers his coolness. He looks like a Christian rapper.
It's rumored Real Madrid has an unofficial "no ugly players" policy and it's why they didn't sign Ronaldinho.
curious if Ethan or anyone else saw the viral tiktok where someone has the take that “aura”
is mainly a way for guys to call other guys attractive without saying it directly, thereby preserving their heterosexuality. i think it ties back to this quite a bit
Confounding issue here is Tatum is said to have no aura
Whenever someone posts a picture of an athlete in the offseason with “such and such player isn’t playing fair this year” it makes me laugh every time.