They just play boring basketball and their best player gets his buckets in large part from unaesthetic herky-jerkiness, foul baiting, or a combination of the two. This is the real reason why people don't like them, they're not fun to watch.
What do you mean by boring? They literally play the most athletic and high-energy basketball that's ever existed + have that half-court mid-range game that we've all been pining after since the r3volution.
Idk how to respond, not because you're wrong but because I think we are seeing different realities. Thunder basketball is Shea driving the lane, herking and jerking, and taking free throws. That's boring to me. You may have a different experience of their game than I do. But tbc, Id rather watch steph jack up logo threes than Shea grind in the paint for fouls.
The thing that gets me about the Spurs being "ethical basketball" to OKCs "unethical basketball" is that they are only here because three years ago OKC decided the point of basketball was to win the game and the Spurs decided the point was to lose the game to draft Wemby. It's beyond annoying to see some of the most aggro tankers in league history be held up as paragons of virtue.
Surprisingly OKC did not finish in last place in the West once in the post-KD era. Never the biggest losers despite their prodigious reputation. Spurs managed to make it to 15th in 2023, just in time for Wemby.
I don’t think it’s crazy to expect an MVP guard to display fortitude through contact, not just land on his ass half the time the ball leaves his fingertips. It’s not awe-inspiring spectacle - it’s “results”-driven bullshit. A “smart” player is one who makes the right pass or sets up the right play, not the best ref milker on rulebook technicalities and loopholes. I don’t care who does it - I HATE it, and the fact that it’s a two-time MVP doing it visibly and blatantly night in and night out is bad for the game, regardless of how many other ancillary pieces are guilty of it around him on the court. He’s at the top of the mountain and should act the part.
Surprised you haven't made the connection between declining NBA ratings and how unappealing the OKC Thunder are to watch. When the Warriors were dominating the league fans tuned in to see Curry and to see if they can be beaten. Does any fan outside of Oklahoma actually enjoy watching SGA flail on every shot?
Their front office was calling the league every week trying to get their hands on Utah's pick. Their best player shoves off before his midrange shots, but collapses like a marionette when there's a hand on his shoulder. Chet clutches at his face half a dozen times per game when no contact occurred.
I'm not making any moral judgements on that behavior. They are all sometimes-effective bids at generating a competitive edge. They are also unappealing esthetically. I rooted against the Harden rockets on similar grounds. If that brand of play is ultimately the most successful repeatedly, it will spread. I want less of that in the league, not more, so I root for it to come up short in the biggest moments.
I’m a casual NBA fan who mostly gets his impression of other teams when they play the Knicks, and I tend to just tune a lot of rumor mill/conspiracy content out, but I know of the “flopping” nonsense because Wemby spouted off about “ethical basketball”. Then, he made that hands on hips pose at the end of Game 1 after an admittedly impressive performance (which was almost “the Alex Caruso game”). Wemby is basically Jean Girard, the Sacha Baron Cohen character from Talledega Nights, brought to life. I’m impressed, but also: Fuck that guy!
But given that Wemby exists, how do you stop him? By having a team of defensive maniacs like OKC does. *That’s* what’s so compelling to me about this series, and it’s enthralling to watch!
PS: Caruso has played so well I’d take him over Josh Hart, and I fucking love Josh Hart!
The Thunder are really good, they play really hard, they all seem to accept their roles, they don't seem to have much ego, they are well run, every player on their roster is at least pretty good. They are also just corny and unlikeable. It's not just the foul baiting and grabbing. I can't stand them.
I was just about to say this. They have ZERO swag. They are dorks. They can't even be on camera by themselves with all piling in the shot like goobers. They did that last year, and Caruso literally had to tell them "stop it!" like some nerdy teenagers with braces at a summer camp.
I root for the Nuggets (so I'm no fan of the Wolves), but they don't have 1/10th of the charisma or swagger of Edwards. Or the playful charisma of Steph, or Murray, or Luka (when he's not whining). And for whatever you think of Wemby, he's got "fuck you" energy.
Shai has the highest FTA in the league. No one calls everyone on the thunder a free throw merchant. Only one of them is a basketball terrorist. The comparisons are Luka (gets more FT's) and Harden. But Shai takes the acting to Chris Paul levels of performance. Making him somehow pass a guy who was widely referred to as "basketball hitler" in unfavorables at their peak.
Of course Wemby is going to get physical. They're getting physical with him, as anyone with sense would have coached the Thunder to do. I like that about the Thunder. That is not why they're hated. It's the combination of Shai's oscar worthy acting with a hard edge that drives people nuts.
It is rather reminiscent of Golden State. Where a guard gets babied but the people around him are allowed to be rougher than the opposition. So i see why you would like this. To the rest of us though...Disgusting. Imagine if the refs let people treat Curry or Shai the way they treat Wemby.
Great article, i hated it
Edit - Luka still had more cumulative FT's too, so I was wrong on that thought Shai won the race this year. He was third. Avdija also beat him on average per game
If they had done what happened to Wemby he would have lived at the FT line. CUrry would be a role player when we were growing up. I could defend him. Just put my feet beneath him
A+ contrarian take. The thunder are a great team, which is why the flopping is so frustrating. They don’t need to do it to win! They have an insanely loaded roster (thanks to good management and drafting and lots of tanking and some luck ), great coach, and best guard IMO since Jordan. I agree with the other commenters that SGA is an amazing player and an unstoppable machine but the degree to which he exploits the rules (off arm shove, foul baiting) is just not fun to watch. Luka and prime Harden are/were the same. They don’t take a ton of free throws as a team because they are getting so much transition (thanks to their all time great defense) but SGA gets to the line a lot and gets an awesome whistle.
I enjoy having a good villain to root against so I’m not complaining.
Castle BTW is a huge flopper and off arm person and there are some clips going around Twitter of bad wemby flops too FWIW.
The real story of this series is that muscle injuries are taking out some of the best players. I can’t remember the last really good playoff series that wasn’t ruined by injuries.
Why is the assumption that a strong disdain for the Thunder is irrational? Everyone agreed that it was annoying when Trae Young and James Harden kicked their legs out on 3's to exploit the rules. Nobody said they sucked, only that it was irritating. It's the same thing with SGA.
Also, I don't enjoy watching a team that is THIS deep. They went 8-0 to start the playoffs without their "second-best player". They have guys who would average 20+ points who don't even play. That's something worth admiring, for sure, but that's more about the roster construction.
The reason I like watching great teams with less depth is that there is more pressure on the stars. The matchups and adjustments matter more. We get to see an opposing coach take something away from the other team's star player and then see how they adjust. Where is that with this Thunder team? They have waves of talent, and when bench guys come in, they almost seem interchangeable. It's more enjoyable to see a player like Ayo Dosunmu emerge. There is a narrative there that we can focus on.
The Thunder are a machine, and machines don't always make for great entertainment.
I am a Premier League soccer fan and even I find the level of theatrical flopping in the NBA to be embarassing. They need to call simulation (or in NBA parlance, non-unsportsmanlike technical fouls) far more often. Combine that with actually allowing players to play tight defense all season long, and you may actually get someone like me, who used to love the NBA but has drifted away from its most recent form, back in the fold.
I had Sonics season tickets for 15 years. My seats were six rows up from behind the visitor’s bench. For some of us, the Thunder are the spawn of evil men.
My brother who doesn’t watch much regular season basketball but is now watching the playoffs was surprised at how good SGA is because all he sees online is clips of SGA falling down. Last night (I watched most of the game on my phone because my kids were watching a movie so I didn’t really hear the broadcast) I did not register that Wemby was being held by Hartenstien and in general when I watch OKC I don’t observe that SGA flops more than any other star player.
They just play boring basketball and their best player gets his buckets in large part from unaesthetic herky-jerkiness, foul baiting, or a combination of the two. This is the real reason why people don't like them, they're not fun to watch.
What do you mean by boring? They literally play the most athletic and high-energy basketball that's ever existed + have that half-court mid-range game that we've all been pining after since the r3volution.
Idk how to respond, not because you're wrong but because I think we are seeing different realities. Thunder basketball is Shea driving the lane, herking and jerking, and taking free throws. That's boring to me. You may have a different experience of their game than I do. But tbc, Id rather watch steph jack up logo threes than Shea grind in the paint for fouls.
Which series are you watching? Thru 2 games:
Spurs 46 fta - Wemby 14/15
OKC 43 fta - Shai 14/15
I am surprised Ethan hasn't mentioned this in any of his NBA ratings discourse.
The thing that gets me about the Spurs being "ethical basketball" to OKCs "unethical basketball" is that they are only here because three years ago OKC decided the point of basketball was to win the game and the Spurs decided the point was to lose the game to draft Wemby. It's beyond annoying to see some of the most aggro tankers in league history be held up as paragons of virtue.
Adding to Ethan's point in the article: OKC sat a healthy Shai to tank in 21 and 22.
Surprisingly OKC did not finish in last place in the West once in the post-KD era. Never the biggest losers despite their prodigious reputation. Spurs managed to make it to 15th in 2023, just in time for Wemby.
glad you agree both OKC and San Antonio tanked recently
I don’t think it’s crazy to expect an MVP guard to display fortitude through contact, not just land on his ass half the time the ball leaves his fingertips. It’s not awe-inspiring spectacle - it’s “results”-driven bullshit. A “smart” player is one who makes the right pass or sets up the right play, not the best ref milker on rulebook technicalities and loopholes. I don’t care who does it - I HATE it, and the fact that it’s a two-time MVP doing it visibly and blatantly night in and night out is bad for the game, regardless of how many other ancillary pieces are guilty of it around him on the court. He’s at the top of the mountain and should act the part.
Need a hug after watching Shai go to the free throw line 3x in 48 minutes?
Find me for free hugs an hour before OKC Spurs g3 tipoff at the southern most Frost Bank Center gate
I'm sorry game 3 happened
Surprised you haven't made the connection between declining NBA ratings and how unappealing the OKC Thunder are to watch. When the Warriors were dominating the league fans tuned in to see Curry and to see if they can be beaten. Does any fan outside of Oklahoma actually enjoy watching SGA flail on every shot?
Love this article. Terminally online people are insane.
OKC organizationally weaponizes crying.
Their front office was calling the league every week trying to get their hands on Utah's pick. Their best player shoves off before his midrange shots, but collapses like a marionette when there's a hand on his shoulder. Chet clutches at his face half a dozen times per game when no contact occurred.
I'm not making any moral judgements on that behavior. They are all sometimes-effective bids at generating a competitive edge. They are also unappealing esthetically. I rooted against the Harden rockets on similar grounds. If that brand of play is ultimately the most successful repeatedly, it will spread. I want less of that in the league, not more, so I root for it to come up short in the biggest moments.
I’m a casual NBA fan who mostly gets his impression of other teams when they play the Knicks, and I tend to just tune a lot of rumor mill/conspiracy content out, but I know of the “flopping” nonsense because Wemby spouted off about “ethical basketball”. Then, he made that hands on hips pose at the end of Game 1 after an admittedly impressive performance (which was almost “the Alex Caruso game”). Wemby is basically Jean Girard, the Sacha Baron Cohen character from Talledega Nights, brought to life. I’m impressed, but also: Fuck that guy!
But given that Wemby exists, how do you stop him? By having a team of defensive maniacs like OKC does. *That’s* what’s so compelling to me about this series, and it’s enthralling to watch!
PS: Caruso has played so well I’d take him over Josh Hart, and I fucking love Josh Hart!
The Thunder are really good, they play really hard, they all seem to accept their roles, they don't seem to have much ego, they are well run, every player on their roster is at least pretty good. They are also just corny and unlikeable. It's not just the foul baiting and grabbing. I can't stand them.
I was just about to say this. They have ZERO swag. They are dorks. They can't even be on camera by themselves with all piling in the shot like goobers. They did that last year, and Caruso literally had to tell them "stop it!" like some nerdy teenagers with braces at a summer camp.
I root for the Nuggets (so I'm no fan of the Wolves), but they don't have 1/10th of the charisma or swagger of Edwards. Or the playful charisma of Steph, or Murray, or Luka (when he's not whining). And for whatever you think of Wemby, he's got "fuck you" energy.
This is emerging? It's been an on-going narrative of basketball for over two seasons now.
Shai has the highest FTA in the league. No one calls everyone on the thunder a free throw merchant. Only one of them is a basketball terrorist. The comparisons are Luka (gets more FT's) and Harden. But Shai takes the acting to Chris Paul levels of performance. Making him somehow pass a guy who was widely referred to as "basketball hitler" in unfavorables at their peak.
Of course Wemby is going to get physical. They're getting physical with him, as anyone with sense would have coached the Thunder to do. I like that about the Thunder. That is not why they're hated. It's the combination of Shai's oscar worthy acting with a hard edge that drives people nuts.
It is rather reminiscent of Golden State. Where a guard gets babied but the people around him are allowed to be rougher than the opposition. So i see why you would like this. To the rest of us though...Disgusting. Imagine if the refs let people treat Curry or Shai the way they treat Wemby.
Great article, i hated it
Edit - Luka still had more cumulative FT's too, so I was wrong on that thought Shai won the race this year. He was third. Avdija also beat him on average per game
Steph had the worst superstar whistle of all time. Try again.
Of course no one would do that...Because he was just a little guard who wasn't all that important outside shooting.
If they had done what happened to Wemby he would have lived at the FT line. CUrry would be a role player when we were growing up. I could defend him. Just put my feet beneath him
A+ contrarian take. The thunder are a great team, which is why the flopping is so frustrating. They don’t need to do it to win! They have an insanely loaded roster (thanks to good management and drafting and lots of tanking and some luck ), great coach, and best guard IMO since Jordan. I agree with the other commenters that SGA is an amazing player and an unstoppable machine but the degree to which he exploits the rules (off arm shove, foul baiting) is just not fun to watch. Luka and prime Harden are/were the same. They don’t take a ton of free throws as a team because they are getting so much transition (thanks to their all time great defense) but SGA gets to the line a lot and gets an awesome whistle.
I enjoy having a good villain to root against so I’m not complaining.
Castle BTW is a huge flopper and off arm person and there are some clips going around Twitter of bad wemby flops too FWIW.
The real story of this series is that muscle injuries are taking out some of the best players. I can’t remember the last really good playoff series that wasn’t ruined by injuries.
He actually doesnt have the highest FTA in the league.
Oh you're right, i thought Luka only won the average. He still won both even with injuries hahahaha
Why is the assumption that a strong disdain for the Thunder is irrational? Everyone agreed that it was annoying when Trae Young and James Harden kicked their legs out on 3's to exploit the rules. Nobody said they sucked, only that it was irritating. It's the same thing with SGA.
Also, I don't enjoy watching a team that is THIS deep. They went 8-0 to start the playoffs without their "second-best player". They have guys who would average 20+ points who don't even play. That's something worth admiring, for sure, but that's more about the roster construction.
The reason I like watching great teams with less depth is that there is more pressure on the stars. The matchups and adjustments matter more. We get to see an opposing coach take something away from the other team's star player and then see how they adjust. Where is that with this Thunder team? They have waves of talent, and when bench guys come in, they almost seem interchangeable. It's more enjoyable to see a player like Ayo Dosunmu emerge. There is a narrative there that we can focus on.
The Thunder are a machine, and machines don't always make for great entertainment.
I lived through the D. Wade Force Field Finals in 2006. Nothing will ever be worse than that.
I am a Premier League soccer fan and even I find the level of theatrical flopping in the NBA to be embarassing. They need to call simulation (or in NBA parlance, non-unsportsmanlike technical fouls) far more often. Combine that with actually allowing players to play tight defense all season long, and you may actually get someone like me, who used to love the NBA but has drifted away from its most recent form, back in the fold.
I had Sonics season tickets for 15 years. My seats were six rows up from behind the visitor’s bench. For some of us, the Thunder are the spawn of evil men.
Hi, my name is Phil and I have Thunder Derangement Syndrome
My brother who doesn’t watch much regular season basketball but is now watching the playoffs was surprised at how good SGA is because all he sees online is clips of SGA falling down. Last night (I watched most of the game on my phone because my kids were watching a movie so I didn’t really hear the broadcast) I did not register that Wemby was being held by Hartenstien and in general when I watch OKC I don’t observe that SGA flops more than any other star player.