Agree with this entirely. In fact, often times, those who most defend the "slop" are not young people but rather an older person who, for some reason, feels like they've been appointed to defend the (supposed) tastes of younger people. "I don't like this but it's important to appeal to young people". I think often this comes either 1) being uncomfortable with one's own advancing age and trying to compensate or 2) straight up virtue signaling to show that you're not one of those judgmental old people, bur thar the one who "gets it".
I agree. I remember seeing something a few years ago, and I can't recall now who the artist was, but some famous, aging musician was being asked his opinion on today's music and he responded with something along the lines of, "I'm not sure what's good anymore, my daughter has a better feel of that stuff now." Fits your #2 point pretty well where people abdicate their own feelings out of some misplaced sense of virtue.
You see this a lot with baseball. Lifelong baseball fans who need to constantly talk about how it's not popular with younger fans, needs to appeal more to millennials, etc.
An interesting reverse of this is the "lewronggeneration" kids that nostalga-ize a past that they didn't experience.
There's a lot of this on the /r/nba subreddit, where you can tell it is younger people hyping up teams or players from the past to be better than they are just to seem like they're knowledgeable or something?
There's no way this slop is what people want and EVEN IF IT WAS it's undignified and worthy of being criticized. "You're just too old" should be worn like a badge of honor. With so few adults left, we owe it to the kids to provide authority figures they can either look up to or rebel against. With unhappiness at an all time high maybe affirming every choice they make is... not great fr.
People tend to get mad when I say this, probably because they think it might be about them, but most people are sheep. To be less incendiary, almost everyone is a sheep some of the time, and many people are sheep most of the time. Particularly in matters of fashion, or other unimportant things, and some actually-important things like politics that people usually don't have time for, and so simply use heuristics and yes, fashion, as placeholders. Status tends to eat everything that people don't honestly care about, and looking old is always low-status. So people will reflexively try to be hip, or cool, or rad, or whatever the term of art is now. I don't know, I'm old.
Well said. I actually think this goes with something else you wrote about — the abdication of responsibility by older people.
Not all, but most people should get wiser with age. Experience being a great teacher and what not. In almost any field, especially athletics, older people have regret that their well won judgment can’t be matched with the strength and vigor of their youth. There should be a Rubin-like confidence in their taste and judgment.
Deferring to youth, mimicking youth, worshiping youth, instead of guiding youth is a tragedy
To Ethan's point, it seems a little Emperor's New Clothes-ish. Few people want to be the one that admit it sucks out of fear of not looking hip online.
But I'm really interested in Michael Redd's comment. Has anyone ever become a fan of a team because they had a "cool" X/Twitter account? Personally, I can't remember the last time I purchased something because of an ad, other than maybe those new Taco Bell chicken tacos, and that's only because they got me when I was hungry.
I was reading C.S. Lewis the other day, specifically his thoughts on “chronological snobbery.” He believe that we shouldn't dismiss something simply because it’s old, nor should we worship it just because it’s new. And it seems our generation is obsessed with trends rather than genuine aesthetic judgment. Developing that judgment requires a heart capable of discerning true beauty from the 'slop' masquerading as art.
This reflexive habit gained prominence with the boomers, who will likely put an end to it as well, as they were the largest and most prosperous generation as young people and then middle-aged parents, and now retirees. It's natural that the market and culture will cater to them.
I find it funny that we look at pictures of ourselves in our teens and twenties and groan at all the stupid fashion choices we made (or posters in our room, music we sang along to, bad haircuts, etc.)… and then think that the current young generation isn’t going to regret all of the stupid shit they’re choosing to fashionably chase.
The baggy jeans, the haircuts, the shitty rap, the slang, all of it is going to go from popular to cringe the same way that Jncos, mushroom cuts, and Limp Bizkit did.
I'm old, but I have three teenage daughters who aren't afraid to use the lingo of the month (or week or day) when texting me. The thing is, as soon as I adopt something, they move on, which is something I think is normal for most younger people. They often have an inherent desire to rebel, so once dad or the social media manager or Raytheon adopts their lingo, they know it's fr played no cap. So beyond such efforts often being slop, the purported audience has grown up so steeped in cultural cache as a product that they aren't impressed with brands seeking to incorporate it. It's just slang for them and their friends, it's not a true expression of meaning. (Having done some very small social media marketing for a cost center of a large corporation, it's also such a slog. Most brands don't allow the person actually manning the accounts to just go for it. They have to come up with a concept, send it to their boss, get clearance from legal, etc. By that point, the post is at a minimum a few weeks past the highpoint for whatever relevant term or moment is being addressed which makes the posts sound, wait for it, like they were written by an old person.)
A friend told me years back, "age robs you of many things, but what it offers in return is perspective."
One part of my perspectives is that the emotional pull in wanting to sit at the cool kids' lunch table is remarkably powerful and consistent in the young.
You were in your bag on this one fr
Fear of Looking Old is the No. 1 driver of everyone in these circles. I guarantee it. Friend of the Pod Freddie deBoer has written about this too.
"OK Boomer" and "Old Man Yells at Cloud" is literally the only argument these people have. Because they know it stings. But I am not moved by it.
It's sad that people are ruining Old Man Yells at Cloud
Agree with this entirely. In fact, often times, those who most defend the "slop" are not young people but rather an older person who, for some reason, feels like they've been appointed to defend the (supposed) tastes of younger people. "I don't like this but it's important to appeal to young people". I think often this comes either 1) being uncomfortable with one's own advancing age and trying to compensate or 2) straight up virtue signaling to show that you're not one of those judgmental old people, bur thar the one who "gets it".
"How do you do, fellow kids?"
Like SVG and Zach Lowe declaring that the 20 greatest basketball players of all time are currently playing.
I agree. I remember seeing something a few years ago, and I can't recall now who the artist was, but some famous, aging musician was being asked his opinion on today's music and he responded with something along the lines of, "I'm not sure what's good anymore, my daughter has a better feel of that stuff now." Fits your #2 point pretty well where people abdicate their own feelings out of some misplaced sense of virtue.
You see this a lot with baseball. Lifelong baseball fans who need to constantly talk about how it's not popular with younger fans, needs to appeal more to millennials, etc.
An interesting reverse of this is the "lewronggeneration" kids that nostalga-ize a past that they didn't experience.
There's a lot of this on the /r/nba subreddit, where you can tell it is younger people hyping up teams or players from the past to be better than they are just to seem like they're knowledgeable or something?
No one can just be their own age online.
Agree with your point of who is defending the slop. Exhibit A: those defending "The Super Mario Galaxy Movie" as good.
My 6, 9 and 11 year old children will defend the Super Mario movies to the ends of the earth. They love them.
But I refuse to concede “taste” making to people who still lie about brushing their teeth.
There's no way this slop is what people want and EVEN IF IT WAS it's undignified and worthy of being criticized. "You're just too old" should be worn like a badge of honor. With so few adults left, we owe it to the kids to provide authority figures they can either look up to or rebel against. With unhappiness at an all time high maybe affirming every choice they make is... not great fr.
People tend to get mad when I say this, probably because they think it might be about them, but most people are sheep. To be less incendiary, almost everyone is a sheep some of the time, and many people are sheep most of the time. Particularly in matters of fashion, or other unimportant things, and some actually-important things like politics that people usually don't have time for, and so simply use heuristics and yes, fashion, as placeholders. Status tends to eat everything that people don't honestly care about, and looking old is always low-status. So people will reflexively try to be hip, or cool, or rad, or whatever the term of art is now. I don't know, I'm old.
Well said. I actually think this goes with something else you wrote about — the abdication of responsibility by older people.
Not all, but most people should get wiser with age. Experience being a great teacher and what not. In almost any field, especially athletics, older people have regret that their well won judgment can’t be matched with the strength and vigor of their youth. There should be a Rubin-like confidence in their taste and judgment.
Deferring to youth, mimicking youth, worshiping youth, instead of guiding youth is a tragedy
To Ethan's point, it seems a little Emperor's New Clothes-ish. Few people want to be the one that admit it sucks out of fear of not looking hip online.
But I'm really interested in Michael Redd's comment. Has anyone ever become a fan of a team because they had a "cool" X/Twitter account? Personally, I can't remember the last time I purchased something because of an ad, other than maybe those new Taco Bell chicken tacos, and that's only because they got me when I was hungry.
Folks in the ad biz are good at one thing, selling the idea that advertising is necessary
One thing I’ve learned after 50 years: If you feel old now, just know in a decade you’ll marvel at how young you were at the time.
I was reading C.S. Lewis the other day, specifically his thoughts on “chronological snobbery.” He believe that we shouldn't dismiss something simply because it’s old, nor should we worship it just because it’s new. And it seems our generation is obsessed with trends rather than genuine aesthetic judgment. Developing that judgment requires a heart capable of discerning true beauty from the 'slop' masquerading as art.
This reflexive habit gained prominence with the boomers, who will likely put an end to it as well, as they were the largest and most prosperous generation as young people and then middle-aged parents, and now retirees. It's natural that the market and culture will cater to them.
This is why being in your forties is unironically great.
Here is the Mad Men lesson: Target the ad at the people who buy the shit.
I find it funny that we look at pictures of ourselves in our teens and twenties and groan at all the stupid fashion choices we made (or posters in our room, music we sang along to, bad haircuts, etc.)… and then think that the current young generation isn’t going to regret all of the stupid shit they’re choosing to fashionably chase.
The baggy jeans, the haircuts, the shitty rap, the slang, all of it is going to go from popular to cringe the same way that Jncos, mushroom cuts, and Limp Bizkit did.
I'm old, but I have three teenage daughters who aren't afraid to use the lingo of the month (or week or day) when texting me. The thing is, as soon as I adopt something, they move on, which is something I think is normal for most younger people. They often have an inherent desire to rebel, so once dad or the social media manager or Raytheon adopts their lingo, they know it's fr played no cap. So beyond such efforts often being slop, the purported audience has grown up so steeped in cultural cache as a product that they aren't impressed with brands seeking to incorporate it. It's just slang for them and their friends, it's not a true expression of meaning. (Having done some very small social media marketing for a cost center of a large corporation, it's also such a slog. Most brands don't allow the person actually manning the accounts to just go for it. They have to come up with a concept, send it to their boss, get clearance from legal, etc. By that point, the post is at a minimum a few weeks past the highpoint for whatever relevant term or moment is being addressed which makes the posts sound, wait for it, like they were written by an old person.)
Wonderfully said. I enjoy these style posts btw
I'd never seen the Rick Rubin clip. Really interesting comments from him.
A friend told me years back, "age robs you of many things, but what it offers in return is perspective."
One part of my perspectives is that the emotional pull in wanting to sit at the cool kids' lunch table is remarkably powerful and consistent in the young.
And the old! Nobody wants to concede that they’re past their prime and washed up.