Look, I don't begrudge anyone who wants to spend the occasional free evening at a strip club. But if a city's iconic cultural institution is a strip club, that city would seem to have some major cultural problems.
I’m not sure if growing, insurgent cities that attract striver-types can cultivate local culture anymore.
When I first visited Atlanta 15 years ago the greater area reminded me of Northern VA albeit with much housing. Today it seems like housing costs are more similar but Atlanta and the inner burbs have worse traffic and nothing but that placeless, bland Sunbelt aesthetic. I’ve seen locals talk up The Battery and I’m like, really?
My experience traveling the country for work is that a good 90% of it is very much the same. Most rural areas, most suburban and exurban areas. The same.
The real differences are the air temperature/humidity, access to mountains/water/ocean, and scenery generally.
The are a couple urban cores that actually feel a bit different, Chicago, NY, DC, SF, but that is about it. Everything else might as well be anywhere.
The idea that suburban Atlanta, or suburban Chicago or suburban LA has some distinct culture or feel seems very silly to me. Your life in suburban Chicago is on a day-to-day basis 98% what your life would be in suburban Sacramento or suburban Houston.
I would mostly agree with you, the big well known cities have distinct cultures (Acela corridor, Texas triangle, west coast cities, Chicago, and Miami) but the burbs are … well cookie cutter.
The Hawks logo is on cans of Budweiser and Michelob and the team is sponsored by FanDuel. The team's virtue set sail on the SS Bag-o-cash a long time ago. If someone now wants to draw a line and say "enough is enough," that's fine but you need to make alcohol and gambling part of the demand. In my opinion, the collaboration with beer companies is the worst of all of them as the cans look like NBA energy drinks and are clearly aimed at a young demo.
In any event, this is promotion for team co-owner Jami Gertz's Magic City doc cloaked under an appreciation for "Atlanta culture." Kornet is fighting with ownership at this point, so good luck.
The topic you reference about racial politics and the Hawks *is* interesting, but Luka trade is likely a nothing burger there unless you want to call Luka racist. Rayford Young (Trae's dad) has made many cryptic references online that Luka simply did not want to play in Atlanta and others around the org have seemed to tacitly confirm this and even Trae himself a few times. The Hawks were fortunate enough to pick up an extra first rounder in the swap.
But off the top of my head and starting from the obvious jumping point of their GM at the time Danny Ferry being recorded on a phone call (because the owners saw what happened to Sterling) reading off an intel report from a Cleveland front office person that Luol Deng "he's got some African in him". That led to an owner trying to fire Ferry, so the whole org hired a law firm to audit the entire org for racist remarks and they turn up some Bruce Levenson emails where he comments on lack of fan support which reads insensitive towards Black fans but this triggers a sale of the entire team and eventual hiring of a "Chief Diversity Officer" Nzinga Shaw who....really didn't do anything but use that to get a better job at Starbucks probably thanks to being repped by CAA. Read Kevin Arnovitz's"Claws out" for more details https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13457071/nba-how-atlanta-hawks-regime-fell-apart although he leaves out everything that the Mayor at the time, Kasim Reed whose administration was federally convicted on bribery charges, grandstanded that he could control the sale process of the Hawks and would ensure a minority owner because that plays well for politics in the city. They hung a banner up for him at one point, along with an LEED certification banner and a Widespread Panic Sold Out Show Counter (I think they got up to 29?).
Then there's former GM Wes Wilcox making a weird joke about his Black wife during a season ticket holders meeting that triggered a uhhh backlash that he should be fired for being racist. Also the change in direction by Koonin to market towards Black Atlanta while simultaneously fucking up their streak of MLK Day Games in 2017 along with all his schmuck promotions (look up Koonin For Shizzle).
Another interesting aspect I just recalled about racial aspects of the Hawks which is related to Koonin and his penchant to further alienate parts of the fan base. He once insulted the "Alpharetta Unicorn" as a nonexistent fan for the Hawks that would drive from North Atlanta suburbs which then caused a huge change in how the team was marketed. This was from another wonderful Arnovitz article https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/12080830/reselling-hawks-atlanta
The thing is, I was a psuedo "Alpharetta Unicorn" in high school along with many in my friend group (from a neighboring town and also not 55 years old at the time) for a long time. They did and do exist. Which is why the Braves moved from downtown Atlanta to Cobb County, closer to that group Koonin said doesn't exist. I haven't lived in the Atlanta area for a while, but the folks in the Alpharetta area I keep in touch with haven't really been enthused with the Hawks...
@Ethan how has Kevin Arnovitz never been a guest on your pod? I know he doesn't cover the NBA anymore, but he would be a fascinating listen if you could twist his arm. This might be a topic to be able to do so.
@Ethan I second this. Arnovitz was one of my favorite podcasters when he would do an annual podcast with Zach Lowe. I still remember KA spending 20min talking about his 3 week trip with Mongolian nomads years before Mongolia became the latest adventure-tourism spot.
When they get a Vegas team they can have a Chicken Ranch night. Or maybe the Wizards could have an “Epstein Island Night - Free Microsoft Office and Vaccinations sponsored by Bill Gates”. I’ve been to a batch of Spurs games over the years. Anyone who merely suggested a strip club night would be immediately fired. I do hope that I get to see Adam Silver actually use the words “magic” and “city” in a sentence.
…the NBA should not, in fact, be above associating with a strip club. In regards to what one spends money on, I would be less ashamed to be caught “court side” at Magic City than at a Hawks game.
Steve Koonin, their CEO, is just a shock marketer and quite lame at that as well. Who could forget the Atlanta Hawks marketing campaign around the Ashley Madison leak https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13682749/atlanta-hawks-use-ashley-madison-capture-fans-interest-team or what about the Hawks Tinder swipe right night https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22441380/couple-met-atlanta-hawks-tinder-night-wedding-paid-hosted-team or the season (just one, because was a failure) where they decided to push their tip-offs back to 8PM local time https://www.ajc.com/sports/basketball/atlanta-hawks-starts-ticket-scan-shows-lot/E72ePEG0XroFg6wKNfi2EL/ or just those gawd-awful volt green triangle uniforms.
Look, I don't begrudge anyone who wants to spend the occasional free evening at a strip club. But if a city's iconic cultural institution is a strip club, that city would seem to have some major cultural problems.
Magic City cannot possibly be the pinnacle of Black culture in Atlanta.
Oh I completely agree. I'm just astonished that the Hawks described it as an iconic cultural institution in the quote in the article.
When I’ve gone, its never been free
I’m not sure if growing, insurgent cities that attract striver-types can cultivate local culture anymore.
When I first visited Atlanta 15 years ago the greater area reminded me of Northern VA albeit with much housing. Today it seems like housing costs are more similar but Atlanta and the inner burbs have worse traffic and nothing but that placeless, bland Sunbelt aesthetic. I’ve seen locals talk up The Battery and I’m like, really?
My experience traveling the country for work is that a good 90% of it is very much the same. Most rural areas, most suburban and exurban areas. The same.
The real differences are the air temperature/humidity, access to mountains/water/ocean, and scenery generally.
The are a couple urban cores that actually feel a bit different, Chicago, NY, DC, SF, but that is about it. Everything else might as well be anywhere.
The idea that suburban Atlanta, or suburban Chicago or suburban LA has some distinct culture or feel seems very silly to me. Your life in suburban Chicago is on a day-to-day basis 98% what your life would be in suburban Sacramento or suburban Houston.
I would mostly agree with you, the big well known cities have distinct cultures (Acela corridor, Texas triangle, west coast cities, Chicago, and Miami) but the burbs are … well cookie cutter.
This what low self esteem franchises do.
I can’t decide whether it’s offensive to suggest that the Hawks did this to cater to black people
The Hawks logo is on cans of Budweiser and Michelob and the team is sponsored by FanDuel. The team's virtue set sail on the SS Bag-o-cash a long time ago. If someone now wants to draw a line and say "enough is enough," that's fine but you need to make alcohol and gambling part of the demand. In my opinion, the collaboration with beer companies is the worst of all of them as the cans look like NBA energy drinks and are clearly aimed at a young demo.
In any event, this is promotion for team co-owner Jami Gertz's Magic City doc cloaked under an appreciation for "Atlanta culture." Kornet is fighting with ownership at this point, so good luck.
“ I was surprised to see pockets of support for his message across racial lines.”
You shouldn’t be. Opinions, votes, likes/dislikes are all over the map. They’re not segregated along racial lines
They do tend to cluster, though.
So Kornet is Taggart or Rosewood?
He ordered club soda, sir
It would be interesting to do a deeper dive into the racial politics of the Atlanta Hawks. Certainly played a big role in the *original* Luka trade.
The topic you reference about racial politics and the Hawks *is* interesting, but Luka trade is likely a nothing burger there unless you want to call Luka racist. Rayford Young (Trae's dad) has made many cryptic references online that Luka simply did not want to play in Atlanta and others around the org have seemed to tacitly confirm this and even Trae himself a few times. The Hawks were fortunate enough to pick up an extra first rounder in the swap.
But off the top of my head and starting from the obvious jumping point of their GM at the time Danny Ferry being recorded on a phone call (because the owners saw what happened to Sterling) reading off an intel report from a Cleveland front office person that Luol Deng "he's got some African in him". That led to an owner trying to fire Ferry, so the whole org hired a law firm to audit the entire org for racist remarks and they turn up some Bruce Levenson emails where he comments on lack of fan support which reads insensitive towards Black fans but this triggers a sale of the entire team and eventual hiring of a "Chief Diversity Officer" Nzinga Shaw who....really didn't do anything but use that to get a better job at Starbucks probably thanks to being repped by CAA. Read Kevin Arnovitz's"Claws out" for more details https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13457071/nba-how-atlanta-hawks-regime-fell-apart although he leaves out everything that the Mayor at the time, Kasim Reed whose administration was federally convicted on bribery charges, grandstanded that he could control the sale process of the Hawks and would ensure a minority owner because that plays well for politics in the city. They hung a banner up for him at one point, along with an LEED certification banner and a Widespread Panic Sold Out Show Counter (I think they got up to 29?).
Then there's former GM Wes Wilcox making a weird joke about his Black wife during a season ticket holders meeting that triggered a uhhh backlash that he should be fired for being racist. Also the change in direction by Koonin to market towards Black Atlanta while simultaneously fucking up their streak of MLK Day Games in 2017 along with all his schmuck promotions (look up Koonin For Shizzle).
Interesting, thanks. I was under the impression that the team couldn’t draft a white superstar as face of the franchise because of the Ferry fallout.
Another interesting aspect I just recalled about racial aspects of the Hawks which is related to Koonin and his penchant to further alienate parts of the fan base. He once insulted the "Alpharetta Unicorn" as a nonexistent fan for the Hawks that would drive from North Atlanta suburbs which then caused a huge change in how the team was marketed. This was from another wonderful Arnovitz article https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/12080830/reselling-hawks-atlanta
The thing is, I was a psuedo "Alpharetta Unicorn" in high school along with many in my friend group (from a neighboring town and also not 55 years old at the time) for a long time. They did and do exist. Which is why the Braves moved from downtown Atlanta to Cobb County, closer to that group Koonin said doesn't exist. I haven't lived in the Atlanta area for a while, but the folks in the Alpharetta area I keep in touch with haven't really been enthused with the Hawks...
@Ethan how has Kevin Arnovitz never been a guest on your pod? I know he doesn't cover the NBA anymore, but he would be a fascinating listen if you could twist his arm. This might be a topic to be able to do so.
@Ethan I second this. Arnovitz was one of my favorite podcasters when he would do an annual podcast with Zach Lowe. I still remember KA spending 20min talking about his 3 week trip with Mongolian nomads years before Mongolia became the latest adventure-tourism spot.
When they get a Vegas team they can have a Chicken Ranch night. Or maybe the Wizards could have an “Epstein Island Night - Free Microsoft Office and Vaccinations sponsored by Bill Gates”. I’ve been to a batch of Spurs games over the years. Anyone who merely suggested a strip club night would be immediately fired. I do hope that I get to see Adam Silver actually use the words “magic” and “city” in a sentence.
…the NBA should not, in fact, be above associating with a strip club. In regards to what one spends money on, I would be less ashamed to be caught “court side” at Magic City than at a Hawks game.