Hi Ethan, scratch golfer here (not that it matters). I do think LLMs could enhance golf instruction, but I don't think it will make much of a difference for Average Joes.
For Average Joe, the problem *isn't* that his instructor lacks knowledge of the golf swing. His problem is how own inability to exactly replicate an explosive, athletic movement over and over again. His other problem is that he doesn't have the time and/or dedication and/or money to successfully execute a major swing change, which takes thousands of repetitions.
I don't think Average Joes feeding videos of their backswing to a LLM will produce better results than seeing a swing instructor. Even if the LLM is way smarter than any human instructor, the three dimensional in-person observation contains exponentially more data than the two dimensional video recording.
The group of golfers that is best suited to benefit from LLMs is the group of golfers that already has access to the technology that would be easily digestible to an LLM: professional golfers with lots of expensive tracking equipment. I can imagine a scenario in which professional golf instructors learn how to leverage LLMs along with existing technology (Trackman, pressure plates, motion capture) to provide better information to high-level players with the physical ability to consistently execute the instruction.
This. Until recently I would watch a YT video or get a tip and think ‘oh heck yeah this is going to fix my issue’ … only once you get the club in your hands suddenly your backswing feels awkward your swing jerky what am I supposed to do with my head my hands am I standing too close too far … so yes you gotta go out there and just keep swinging until the concept of a natural fluid swing ‘clicks’ and that just takes a lot of practice
This is right on. I suspect Ethan had/has the same issues as 80% of bad/beginner golfers. Its not hard to diagnose. It's hard to teach and it's very hard to improve.
My instructor could've told me 10 problems with my swing. But he told me to work on one thing in my backswing. I am busy, but I do swing work at home for at least a few minutes every day. It probably took me a year. It didnt fully cure my OTT, but it massively decreased it. 1 thing. 1 year of work.
I think there is a seed of what is to come but hasn’t arrived yet. LLMs are limited by two things: the prompt (and it incredibly remains imo the biggest barrier to most average Joe like me LLM use) and obviously the Corpus it has been trained on.
The golf equivalent of the LLM prompt is the swing video which has to be perfectly standardized both in how and what is captured (angles alignment and lighting matter to a fraction of a degree just like the face at impact matters to a fraction of a degree). Going deeper it’s all that is previously mentioned : the endless inputs that can’t be captured by even the best video alone.
The corpus is even tougher. There have been an endless number of extremely successful swings. Jim furyk. Ernie els. Tiger woods. Ben hogan. All very different swings.
AI / machine learning on this known reality of variability has already identified various parts of the swing and mechanics that are common variables amongst the very best golfers (many of which are extremely counterintuitive even once discovered). The problem hasn’t been translation or even discovery for those with the means to get the capture right. It’s the never ending problem of feel vs real. It will get to what ESS has already intuited, but not to the degree that solves the problem for even a 10 handicap without a leap into kinesthetic sense and proprioceptive feedback. Think, the matrix. ‘I know kung fu’ is still a long way off
As a terrible golfer who has only recently found a swing that works … I think a lot of the game is always just going to be swinging the club a couple thousand times and getting advice until something clicks. I’ve also used the LLM to confirm some things (ball behind front heel off the tee, in between feet for other shots) but I think you already need to be a functional player to take advantage of what LLMs have to offer. And frankly watching videos on YT is probably more helpful for a beginner than talking to an AI.
Wow - this is super interesting. Not because of golf specifically, but because of all the tasks and skills, many of them far more important than golf, that might get the same boost.
It has worked in basketball. If you haven't already heard of this, look up how ex professional poker player Mike Mcdonald went from being awful at basketball to effectively a 90% free throw shooter in a few months
Hi Ethan, scratch golfer here (not that it matters). I do think LLMs could enhance golf instruction, but I don't think it will make much of a difference for Average Joes.
For Average Joe, the problem *isn't* that his instructor lacks knowledge of the golf swing. His problem is how own inability to exactly replicate an explosive, athletic movement over and over again. His other problem is that he doesn't have the time and/or dedication and/or money to successfully execute a major swing change, which takes thousands of repetitions.
I don't think Average Joes feeding videos of their backswing to a LLM will produce better results than seeing a swing instructor. Even if the LLM is way smarter than any human instructor, the three dimensional in-person observation contains exponentially more data than the two dimensional video recording.
The group of golfers that is best suited to benefit from LLMs is the group of golfers that already has access to the technology that would be easily digestible to an LLM: professional golfers with lots of expensive tracking equipment. I can imagine a scenario in which professional golf instructors learn how to leverage LLMs along with existing technology (Trackman, pressure plates, motion capture) to provide better information to high-level players with the physical ability to consistently execute the instruction.
This. Until recently I would watch a YT video or get a tip and think ‘oh heck yeah this is going to fix my issue’ … only once you get the club in your hands suddenly your backswing feels awkward your swing jerky what am I supposed to do with my head my hands am I standing too close too far … so yes you gotta go out there and just keep swinging until the concept of a natural fluid swing ‘clicks’ and that just takes a lot of practice
This is right on. I suspect Ethan had/has the same issues as 80% of bad/beginner golfers. Its not hard to diagnose. It's hard to teach and it's very hard to improve.
My instructor could've told me 10 problems with my swing. But he told me to work on one thing in my backswing. I am busy, but I do swing work at home for at least a few minutes every day. It probably took me a year. It didnt fully cure my OTT, but it massively decreased it. 1 thing. 1 year of work.
I think you just accidentally leaked the plot to Happy Gilmore 3 (scheduled for 2045)
Does this mean you are gonna do a Bill Simmons and mail it in on writing, and just do more podcasts so you can focus more on your golf game??? LOL
I think there is a seed of what is to come but hasn’t arrived yet. LLMs are limited by two things: the prompt (and it incredibly remains imo the biggest barrier to most average Joe like me LLM use) and obviously the Corpus it has been trained on.
The golf equivalent of the LLM prompt is the swing video which has to be perfectly standardized both in how and what is captured (angles alignment and lighting matter to a fraction of a degree just like the face at impact matters to a fraction of a degree). Going deeper it’s all that is previously mentioned : the endless inputs that can’t be captured by even the best video alone.
The corpus is even tougher. There have been an endless number of extremely successful swings. Jim furyk. Ernie els. Tiger woods. Ben hogan. All very different swings.
AI / machine learning on this known reality of variability has already identified various parts of the swing and mechanics that are common variables amongst the very best golfers (many of which are extremely counterintuitive even once discovered). The problem hasn’t been translation or even discovery for those with the means to get the capture right. It’s the never ending problem of feel vs real. It will get to what ESS has already intuited, but not to the degree that solves the problem for even a 10 handicap without a leap into kinesthetic sense and proprioceptive feedback. Think, the matrix. ‘I know kung fu’ is still a long way off
As a terrible golfer who has only recently found a swing that works … I think a lot of the game is always just going to be swinging the club a couple thousand times and getting advice until something clicks. I’ve also used the LLM to confirm some things (ball behind front heel off the tee, in between feet for other shots) but I think you already need to be a functional player to take advantage of what LLMs have to offer. And frankly watching videos on YT is probably more helpful for a beginner than talking to an AI.
Wow - this is super interesting. Not because of golf specifically, but because of all the tasks and skills, many of them far more important than golf, that might get the same boost.
It has worked in basketball. If you haven't already heard of this, look up how ex professional poker player Mike Mcdonald went from being awful at basketball to effectively a 90% free throw shooter in a few months